The Avatar, Monster or Mouse?

[Calaith]

One thing that often annoys me about the Eldar is that picking a HQ can sometimes be really difficult. Generally most people grab a Farseer, no discussion, and equip him with the best psychic powers to suit his army. However I've found that the Farseer can be a bit of a bland HQ choice, and while Space Marines and Chaos and 'Nids all have these combat psycho killing machines, the humble Farseer is one who is in desperate need of protection unless he has Fortune and a heap of Warlocks defending him.

But where to turn if you don't have a Farseer? Autarch's are kinda dud in my honest opinion, and though they can add valuable high initiative and WS attacks in support of an Aspect squad, they aren't stand alone killing machines. And though Yriel and the Pheonix Lords are easily a match for any HQ of another army, they can be hard to get into combat alive, and too expensive to risk in a transport when faced with over a dozen missile Launchers. (Guard)

The answer? Well to tell you the truth I often over looked the Avatar in the past, due to the fact that you lose the valuable advantages the Farseer had to offer, some too good to lose, and also there was a sort of stigma about the Avatar not being worth his points under the old Codex. I've only used him a handful of times with the new codex, with mixed success, but I must say I'm becoming more and more fond of the ol' chap. Twice now he's gone on a rampage through enemy lines, putting down Terminators, Scarab Swarms and Wraiths, and hacking Possessed Chaos Space Marines to pieces! In that one 4 way game he won back over 400 points from various oponents.

However the problems with the Avatar is that he is slow, and can be taken down early by mass missile Launcher shots and Las-cannons. Though this can be good for averting fire away from your more expensive tanks, the Avatar's new points cost means that he is a little too expensive to just be a fire magnet. You want to see him do some damage.

The other problem with him is that once in combat, unless supported by an aspect squad, he can be dragged down by being swamped in enemies. Timing is important, because if the aspects hit combat too early before him they might all be dead before he gets there to support them. Hopefully by this point the Avatar is just doing a mop up job, but this isn't always the case.

So essentially, I'm asking for opinions. Not really because I need help, but more because I want to see others opinions on this beast. Is he a monster or mouse? Is he worth his cost, or shot apart too easily?

For those who don't use him often, I advise you give him a crack once in a while against Marine Players, especially combat stylized marines who will come to you. Watching them go splat is fun!

Cal

[darthken]

I really didn't think the Autarch's were that bad, especially when compared to an Archon

An Autarch comes with a 3+ SV, 4+ Inv SV, shuriken pistol, plasma & haywire grenades as standard, with Ld 10 all for the bargain price of 70 pts. plus he also gets the "master strategist" special rule as well.


An Archon comes with nothing, has 1 point less on Ld, 1 point more on Inititive and a 5+ SV. for 60pts

[darkmark]

I can't really comment on this, but how often do GW produce a great figure and then give it rules that make it very difficult to include in a list? :(

I'll probaly buy the figure soonish, but it'd nice to know I could actually use him on the TT.

[Calaith]

I assume you mean the Autarch?

I'm not trying to bang the Autarch, but it just isn't the killing machine it could of been. Sure it comes with some pretty neat things as standard, but it's hard to give it good weapons options. It either has to wound most things on a 5+, or allow armour saves. Though it may be less likely to run away, it struggles to kill things on its own. The DE at least have the uber hurty Agonizer.

The best way to use an Autarch is to encorperate him into a squad. For example, give him a reaper launcher and stick him with the reapers. Or a power weapon and stick him with the Banshees. Or a bike and lance, and watch him tear apart the skies with the spears. He isn't bed, just not a stand alone model, and can be hard to get into combat.

[darthken]

i tried this option last week and it was fantastic.

My Archon on his jet bike and instead of putting him in a unit like usual i put him next to the talos.
the two model were a lot easier to hide behind cover than a whole bike squad. and used in a tandem assualt they were nigh on unstoppable.

Maybe try something like that, have an Autarch run next to your Avatar, kit him up for CC.
Between the both of them they should just about munch through any unit.
Probably be a good idea to give the Autarch swooping hawk wings or a jump generator

[Spacefrisian]

I don't like the autarch at all yes he is cheap but he doesn't do much in my oppinion. The Avatar is great and he might be slow but the precence of 2 Wraithlords makes his changes of survival alot greater.

I also like to field Maugan Ra using his Maugatar with Fast shot can be devastating, Not to mention he has S5 in cc, (my nephew fears the guy)

[Morning Fresh]

I'm gonna have a big experiment. It all goes back to when I misread the last codex and got me an Avatar, and then went heavy on the guardians under the impression that I'd have a horde of fearless cheapish troops with heavy weapons to accompany Mr A up the field. Imagine the distress when I realised that it was only in COMBAT that he conferred fearlessness!!! Bugger I screamed and started collecting aspects and vehicles. Now the wheel has turned and I'm thinking of a squad of Storm guardians with flamers for pesky infantry with a Warlock with singing spear, and enhance, two spiritseers with conceal in squads of Guardian defenders with star cannons and accompanied by a wraithlord apiece all toddling up the table fearlessly in the presence of Mr A. I think that this will concentrate the enemies attention wonderfully while my other assets, of the fast bike and skimmer variety hoon around blowin' stuff up. This is a great way to make the eldar resilient and there is a lot of effective heavy medium and light weaponry in that bunch to be a threat to all comers especially when you consider the wailing doom can shoot now. Also Mr A will be a killer against SOB's given their predilection for flamer, melta shooty stuff. Can't wait to validate a long cherished tactic which now finally looks viable! :D

[Calaith]

Nice isn't it, to be fearless. I know it helped me out a lot in a recent game when I had the Avatar centred in a large flank of aspects and Farseers against guard. I of course took a lot of casualties to the Guards heavy fire, but my fearless advance meant that everybody who survived made it to the other side of the board and did some serious damage!

Just remember to be careful with your Storm Guardians, who have no save at all against nearly all weaponry if you don't give the Warlock conceal. I agree Enhance is better for storm guardians, but just be sure to advance through cover and use fleet to get you through it quicker.

Also remember that while the Avatar does make models fearless, he is slow. Some models might jump ahead of him and out of the 12" range you need to be fearless.

Cal

[Morning Fresh]

Yeah Calaith, the trick is to get the opponent to shoot at all the different other units, or, if you are a sneaky eldar like me, to get 'em to shoot at your storm guardians rather than a more juicy unit like aspect warriors. I have very brightly painted (orange) storm guardians, for just such a reason. The main concern I have is someone trying to knock off the Avatar, which will, as you no doubt appreciate, bugger the whole plan up. That is why he is accompanied by a couple of wraithlords, these guys have a way of cocentrating peoples attention, and as I mentioned before, the rest of the army(my fast wing) is free to do their thing as a result of the big dangerous target strolling down the guts of the table.

[Calaith]

Yeah, despite the Avatar being far more dangerous, my oponents generally like to target the Wraith Lords first. The Avatar is pretty hardy too, unless he gets burried under ranged fire power like missile launchers and lascannons and the likes. However hopefully your oponent won't pay attention to him until it is too late.

In my most recently games the Avatar has simply refused to go down though. One four way game he was killed only hafter racking up a kill score three times his own points cost (this includes SM termies with Chapalain, Necron Scarabs and Wraiths, and a handful of Chaos Possessed and Plague Marines).

Cheers, Cal

[Morning Fresh]

My afore mentioned bunch of Avatar following fearlessness comes to 868 pts with two squads of 11 guardian defenders with spiritseers (conceal) and starcannons, one squad of 14 storm guardians with flamers (fusion costs the same) with a warlock with enhance, Avatar and two wraithlords, could be dropped in points by running 10 man squads but, I like the sizes I run. Still leaves 630 pts to play with in a 1500pt force, Woo hoo I say!!! :lol:

[darthken]

Im seriously considering running a beil-tan craftworld now, just because i like the look of the Avatar.
Not sure yet whether ill stick to my original idea of Ulthwe' or not.
Ive got the models and painting will start next week as soon as i make up my mind. ( why oh why do the two craftworlds i like have to be in 2 of the most difficult colours to paint well, white or black.

[Calaith]

Remember that though the Avatar's ties are with the Aspect warriors, and thus most deep seated in the Beil-Tan, he is a fluffy HQ choice for all Eldar armies. Taking him doesn't have to affect your choice in Craftworld.

It more depends on which troops you want backing him up. The swift Banshees or infiltrating scorpions holding the enemy down until the Avatar arrives to break the enemy line once and for all. Or a wall of fearless Guardians marching relentlessly through cover to tear the enemy apart in close combat.

Cal

[Isildius]

I like the avatar. Monster in CC and supported by any aspect warriors is a deadly combo in every way.

Definately a monster.

[Calaith]

One advantage I notice constantly that he has over an Autarch (and specifically Yriel) is that he can't be insta killed in cc, apart from special weapons like Force Weapons. I'm really sick of my Autarch being insta killed by wraiths and Chaos Lords and and power fists after only one wound!

On the flip side of that, the Autarch is probably easier to get into combat.

Cal

[darthken]

yeah i think ill be going with a beil-tan craftworld. all my other armies are dark either in colour or nature(darkelf, vampire counts, darkelder, necrons) so an army with a brighter colour scheme is really starting to feel right.

So an Avatar leading the troops of beil-tan will be the go

[InquisitorMatticus]

The avatar IMHO, is a great hq choice. Although he is good in combat his awesomeness comes from him spreading fearless. He can also be very good as a firepower soaker, and with fortune is nigh unkillable. As an added bounus he is not an independant character so he can count as scoring and stuff.

All in all I really want to find an excuse to field this guy, but he seems best suited to a ground pounding eldar force which I dont exactly have the models for right now.

[DarthIbis]

Avatar has always performed admirably for me. Like Matt said, he draws fire because your opponent wants him dead so badly. If they have melta-weapons... forgetaboutit. They can't hurt him.

Just get him into combat and all will be fine.

[Laney360]

I have always found that autarchs are amazing. I almost always have an autarch with laser lance, jetbike, banshee mask and reaper gun, leading a 3 man squad of shining spears. He almost always rampages through my opponents army, and can take on most opponents. In a game I ha last week, the squad killed a total of: one 10 man squad of plague marines, daemon prince, 10 man squad of CSM and wounded a chaos lord.

I personally try to take an autarch, and my friends have come to fear him. Does anyone else have this much success on a frequent basis, or is it just me?

Laney

[Calaith]

I use the rules for Prince Yriel as my Autarch, and he can generally do pretty well for himself. The Emperor's Champion hates this guy, as he is forced to go mono-e-mono but usually gets his head cut from his shoulders before he can even lift the mighty Black Sword. I have to be pretty lucky with my 4+ saves against other HQ choices though, because wounding on a 3+ and 2+ means he isn't the most durable model out there.