Snape...., One of JKR's biggest mysteries...

[JaF]

Okay, before I get jumped on for having an opinion on this, I know that everyone in the forum has their own personal views on what Snape is really up to, we got to pages and pages of speculation in the old forum!

So, here is a place where everyone can put forward their theories.
Let the Bloodbath- I mean, um, discussion, begin!

[Fayora]

snape is just a misunderstood character. i mean if you look at him and lucius they are foils (i think that the word) of one another. lucius- handsom charismatic popular evil
snape-the opposite (least thats how i feel)

people always get on him because he means but if you look at his history then you see that people have allways been mean to him. if you had been made fun of and never really had friends i'm sure you would be mean too (i know i would be...i am anyway with friend )

but i really don't think that snape is out to do anything (other then make harry misrable).

[JaF]

Bingo! You hit the nail on it, Fayora!

WHY DOES SNAPE WANT TO MAKE HARRY MISERABLE?

[Crompton]

I think it's because of the fact that Snape loathes Harry's father. And because of the whole "I saved your life" bit that Snape's trying to return the favor to Harry by saving him numerous times.

[Fayora]

yes there is that...but wouldn't he have been done and repayed the debt long ago? whyy does he keep saving harry?

perhaps this goes deeper then we know.

i wonder if this has anything to do with why DD trusts snape and how it might have a connection to harrys eyes being green. ::coughs::

what if he like made a vow to protect him (vows are different from debts). lily did try to defend him so maybe that also plays a part in this debt deal thing. and then you have to wonder why him and james hated each other so much. maybe they liked the same girl but because snape didn't realy know how to deal with it he didn't really go for her (we know snape. hes usually one to deal with things in anger)

i also wonder....

maybe james REAL BELIEVED that it was all just out of fun? and i wonder about sirius too...

why would sirius try to send snape to a) his death or a life of misery pain and rejection. i mean he cares about remus. he knows remus could get in trouble. so something must have sent him off to want to really get at snape like that.

and then you have to wonder about hwat sirius said. when he got at snape in the fifth book his reasons or doing so were "because he was alive". me thinks he hadn't intended for prongs to help snape and that he expected to see snape look like a fool and be dead.

now what could severus have done to get that kinda treatment? was he like malfoy that would just start talking about who family is better(i don't know..that doesn't seem very snape to me.. and if he is half blood like i said then he really doesn't have anything to talk about) ? could he have been like harry who really didn't want to talk to malfoy but just kinda put up with him? (this seems like it would be more his style...i can see him saying "shut your silly prattling mouth neanderthal before i make you shut it!!!"). maybe this caused sirius and james to be mad that someone didn't want ot be friends with them.

meh..now its just speculation. but i was going by how DD said his relationship with harrys father was not much different from that with draco and harry. there is one big difference i can see though.

draco laughed when harry got caught by umbridge and was about to have the crusatious put on him. he would never honor or respect harry.

but snape...maybe he hates james so much because he respects him. james saved him even after hating him. and then snape saves harry.

so could it be that one pair respected each other and the other didn't? wrell thats what i think anyway. and its not like a huge amount of respect but enough there to really make a difference.

sorry if i seem off topic. i know this is just a snape talk but i still wonder about padfoot and what goes through his mind also.

[JaF]

Well, Fayora, you suceeded once again in contradicting yourself.

I agreed to the "this goes deeper...." bit, but the rest of it was a bit sketchy.

I think that Snape only saves Harry because of Dumbledore. He hates Harry because [insert reason here] and doesn't want to help Harry. But then, just as Harry is about to die, he realises that he needs Dumbledore's trust for [insert another reason here] and saves Harry.

If anyone figures out what the reason tags mean, PLEASE let me know!

[Fayora]

i wonder if we should add this to the other snape section in the topic Book 6? should we leave it here or put it there? and does anyone know who has that power.

[thelibrarian]

i just think that everything snape said to voldemort to make him trust him was the truth because it makes good sense. look at it this way, snape hated james cause he was jealos like remus said and so james and snape never got along well, and sirius, being james' best friend, would hate the same people james hated right?

and snape only saved harry because like he said, he couldn't kill harry or let him be killed right under dumbledore's nose cause then dumbledore wouldn't trust him anymore and snape would go to azkaban. and i don't think snape gives one wit for harry's well fare anymore now that he's shown his true colors and dumbledore's dead.

there's just one part i know to be a downright lie, snape said he believed quirrel was just a greedy man and not voldemort's servant, but in the first book harry hears snape saying to quirrel that tey'll have another chat later on about where quirrel's loyalties lie, and there are only three ppl concerned here snape dumbledore and voldemort.

snape is the one questioning quirrel about it, so quirrel can't be working for him. and since quirrel was trying to steal the stone, he would not be working for dumbledore, and if he was talking about where his loyalties lie, it would not mean quirrel was working for himself would it...that just leaves voldemort.

so if snape is half as smart as i think he is, he'll have figured this out too already, and that would mean he knew he was voldemort's servant and just didn't want voldemort returned to full power... either that or snape's a bit dimmer than he'd like us all to believe.

[Fayora]

thats actually an interesting statement to make. i can see what you mean. its kinda odd that snape, the intelligent man that he is (he would be dead otherwise), would want the stone from quirral to give to voldy if he already knew voldy was with him.

one would think that such a "loyal" deatheater would want his master restored ASAP especially if he knew the master was with a thought to be bad guy- snape is a mind reader type guy..so i think he would've known early on what was going on... so why would he want the stone if its not for voldy? further more- did he WANT the stone or was he PROTECTING the stone. there is a difference between the two.

i still think that there is way too much evidence that says snape didn't want to kill the big man on compus. either that or we were very cleverly fooled by perfectly plotted points in the story so that we may be thrown on to the wrong path. then again now that everyone believes snape a murder and a killer i think that JKR accomplished that...

wait...what did i say?...

eh...

man thats like the quote "what will happen if we elect a bunch of officals into congress. what will happen if we elect a bunch of idiots in to congress...but then..i repeat myself"

yeah..

it sorta makes sense i guess....either way she has us thrown for a loop and there are two sides that look at him two different ways.

its really rather interesting how such a minor character became to important to the series. i mean you look back at all the books and snapes role has slowly grown.

i do wonder though how it will all end for him. cause to me it seems like in the killing of {insert names of dead one here} he sealed his fate. if it was indeed planned i can kinda see why he wouldn't want to do it in the first place. that did seem like it was a lot for DD to ask of him. but i guess hes the only one that could effectivly pull it off too. its sad though cause if he is still good he just ruined his already pretty crappy life. regardless of him being instructed he did kill another human being with one of the 3 dark curses which means he will go to azkaban or whatever it is they do nowadays whether what he did helped the world or not.

i can sadly see him dying in the next book- whether its protecting harry or even draco. i mean what has he to lose? hes lost everything already. if draco dies he dies. if the order finds him hes done for. if harry finds him hes also done for. if voldy catches on hes dead. if bella doesn't like what hes doing hes dead. hes got really no one to turn to and has lost probubly the one person that trusted him.

so at this point his only reason to live is to protect draco and make sure that harry completes his task at all costs if he is still indeed on DD side (which i think he is).

remember slytherins do whatever they can to achieve their ends. (thats suddenly a very important quote in the book...)

hence why DD thought snape would be the perfect one to do the deed. if i had to choose between who to ask a favor from i would ask a gryffindor or a hufflepuff.... but if i had a really important task to complete and had to choose between a slytherin and a gryffindor- i would most definatly go with the slytherin.

yes. so this was loing and wordy. i better go do something productive now before mom gets home...

meh..i hate hmwk.

[thelibrarian]

i completely agree that snape is dead no matter what he does. and i too can see him dying in the next book, but my opinion of it varys slightly. i personally would be glad see him go, and draco with him. i mean, he did kill dd, no matter why he did it, unless killing him saved another's life. especially after ally that dd did for him.
snape is just a sour old bat doing his evillest deeds before he dies, which will hopefully happen soon... and if not, i think i'll go crazy...

[SteffieSnape]

I don't completely agree with that "snape is just a sour old bat doing his evillest deeds before he dies"

He may hold his grudges, and he may be keeping a lot to himself, but it seems to me that he doesn't really have a choice. He's been playing loyal to both opposing sides, and if not for his demeanor thus far he would have been dead long ago, and if that were to happen I don't think the Order would have as much info as they do, or did... hence life for a lot of people would be even more miserable, even that bratty Potter.

Even if Snape is loyal to Volde, with out his help things could have been a lot worse off. I don't think Snape is purely evil, nor do I think he's purely loyal to Voldie. There is a difference between Voldie's most loyal Death Eaters and Snape, who we know used to be one and is a spy right now. It's the way he talks, the way he thinks, the way he does things. So no, I don't think he's evil. The only true evil in this story is Voldemort, and JKR said so.

I am still a firm believer that Snape is very much on his own side, meaning he's doing things for himself. If I had to choose, I'd put him more on the Order's side. I don't think JKR was exactly nodding us in the direction we took so literally in HBP. She said it herself, the last two books are like one in two parts. And if we know Jo, she likes to mislead us until the very last moment when all right's itself. I think she's been using Snape to this advantage ever since book one.

Seriously, how many times has she given us the hunch that Snape was always the evil one behind everything, but it turns out it wall all a misunderstanding? And who's misunderstanding is it? Harry's! Everything is interpretted from Harry's pov, and we all know Harry is determined to hate Snape no matter what. The scene of DDs death was from Harry's pov, and he didn't explain everything to the Order concerning DDs death.

If Snape was truly against the Order and Harry, then he would have killed Harry himself if he really wanted to that night,, or caused major damage to him. Seriously, think about it. What reason was there to keep Harry at Hogwarts? Why couldn't Snape stun him and deliever him to Voldemort? If Snape was a true DE he would have taken that oppurtunity to bring about Harry's down fall. But he didn't. What did he do? He actually saved his little butt! AND he yelled at Harry to keep closing his mind and shut his mouth when he casts spells. As furious as Snape was.... he was warning Harry.... again..... for like the millionth plus two time!

I don't know if Snape will end up dead or not, I really don't know. I don't WANT him to die, because I don't think he really deserves it like some say he does. I think Snape is very much self-willed, even if he had a respect for DD. And I DONT think he killed DD in cold blood because he wanted to. I dont believe DD was pleading for life either. I am almost POSITIVE that the arguement Hagrid heard was Snape telling DD he wouldnt kill him when the time came and it needed to be done. If you look at the events from HBP as themselves for what they seemed then there are way too many holes and gaps, and nothing makes sense. It wouldn't even seem plausible.

I think that's why almost everyone hated HBP when they finished reading it.... nothing made sense and everything was left unexplained. Well duh! It took me a while to realize too, hehehehe.... it's her intention obviously.

So yeah, I stick by my gut feeling of Snape. As cruel as he is, I don't think he's as horrible as people think he is. Yeah, he's a horrid personality, and sadistic, JKR said so, but he's not evil. And I still don't think he killed DD just because he thought "oh look! the oppurtune moment! la dee da dee doo!" No way..... he took the unbreakable vow... he had to do it no matter what or he would have died... and if he died then Harry would be ultimately screwed with out Snape's help.... and DD knew that.... and he knew about the vov Snape took. Gosh, it's so obvious I don't know how i didn't see it as i read it the first time! Good grief!

Ok, this is long enough. I'll stop bickering now. Of course, this was entirely my own opinion, and anyone is welcome to make their own opinions. But I think it's time people start thinking the way Jo does... nothing is at it seems in her writing. Ah well.... we'll see what happens in the end. I can't wait for the scene between Snape and Harry that is to come when they meet again. WOO! Talk about action and thrill!!! Toodles!

*collapses after long winded rant*

[thelibrarian]

i suppose u have a point, snape is really in it for himself, and he may not be exactly evil either, and he might not deserve to die...
but that doesn't change my opinion of him, he's just one of those ppl that, at the end of a story, die, for one reason or another. andyhow, if he did kill dd on dd's orders, and he ends up saving harry's life again, then voldemort will come after him, and unless somebody in this world loves him, he's not gonna get away.

and if he really is a true bad guy, which i think is more likely, then harry will kill him, or a number of other ppl will, since dd was greatly loved. plus, snape didn't have to make the unbreakable vow, he had a choice, and he chose poorly in my opinion.

and yes, harry is a bit full of himself, and he probably shouldn't have always jumped to snape as the bad guy, but hey, wouldn't you have if u were harry? and if u found out that snape was the one who made voldemort come after you and killed your parents, and then saw him kill someone as close to u as a grandfather, or even a father at times, or even just a dear friend, wouldn't you want his head on a silver platter to be fed to his dogs, wouldn't you have wanted to kill him yourself, wouldn't anyone but the most forgiving of ppl want to kill him on sight, no questions asked? i'm not trying to be a brute here, but i think harry has every right to want to kill snape, unless snape comes up with a dang good reason for harry to spare him

and, if truth be told, i don't have a grudge against snape, i don't think he's the worst guy in the world, and he probably does have his reasons for doing what he's done, but hey, we all have a right to our own opinions, right...

[SteffieSnape]

Yeah, he might end up dead, I have no idea. Maybe he does deserve to die, who knows for sure. As for now, I don't think he should die just because he seems so horrible. I don't think he should die until we've heard the actual truth. If he is in the end always a bad gy, then hells yeah HArry should be the one to kill him, I'm all for that. But I just don't think he is a bad guy all the way, which is why I'm trying to wait until the last possible minute when the truth is out.

And yes, if I was Harry I would probably be mad at Snape a lot too, but I would still want to know what really happened before I go off and kill someone. I think there is a lot Snape is going to reveal to Harry in the next book. And it's either going to make their relationship much much worse, or Harry will come to an understanding.

Either way, I don't think anyone deserves to die as much as Voldemort, everyone thinks that, hehe. But yes, in a way the relatiopnship between Snape and Harry is much more personal than Harry and Voldemort. I believe it was Snape who told Voldemort part of the prophecy, but I also think that Snape was in DDs service before that eavesdropper thing with Trelawney happened.

If you look at the dates layed out in the book it all makes sense. Snape was already spying for DD before that whole prophecy thing. And considering that, DD hasn't been completely honest with Harry much at all. It's obvious there are a lot of things DD kept from Harry about Snape and other things as well, and probably for good reasons. But now that he's gone it's up to Snape to reveal it all.

So yeah.... this is all just craziness. I'm a firm believer there is much more to Snape's story then there has been revealed. I'm leaning more towards hes gonna die in the next book because there are going to be quite a few people angry with him. But then again, I think as the summer goes by in the next book Order members are going to start realizing the gaps and holes in Harry's story of DDs death that night. And I'm certain Hermione will be one of the ones to confront Harry about it. Who knows....

Oh, and Snape didn't have a choice when it came to taking the vow. If he is loyal to DD then not taking the vow would have revealed his true loyalties to Bella who would have run and told uncle voldie and Snape would be a dead man. Either way, he took or he didn't, he was screwed over. I do think he tried to pull away during the vow though, because I think he knew at that moment that he was going to have to kill DD, and he probably wasn't feeling to happy about that. Damn that stupid Narcissa and her son!

Anyways.... it's just my opinion. I'm not giving up on Snape until it's actually over. I'll prolly cry if I find out he was bad all along... but I would really really like to think that won't happen, haha. As I said, I think he's just on his own side. And that is prolly why he stuck it out for so long as a double spy. If he wasnt then.... well yeah.... there would be no Snapey to talk about, hehe.

Sigh, the subject of Snape is just so complex.... which is why I love his character. He's brilliantly written. Even if he does turn out bad, he's still a good character in a written way. Bravo to that. Toodles!

[thelibrarian]

well, snape certainly is in for something, whether good or bad who can know? but one thing is certain, unless harry is forced to, he's not going to let snape explain squat, no matter what the topic of squat acually is, harry is way to mad to let explanation slow him down. like i said, harry is a bit big-headed.

and i feel a great deal of sympathy for voldy sometimes. i mean, it's hard to stop your fears from getting at your heart and soul. and that's exactly what happened to him, he was afraid of death, and so his fear of it drove him to make horcruxes, no matter what the cost to his soul.

and the creation of his horcruxes took his soul, which is like a conscience, and without a consceince, ur just a cold, cruel, monster with brains to boot...

anyhow, snape is dead no matter what he does, cause lucius is going to kill him for sleeping with narcissa... lol j/k, but i think it would be pretty funny if it turns out that draco is narcissa and snape's. that may even be why snape cares about draco so much, enough to vow his life to protect him... boy would lucius be mad. lol. and it may be why narcissa went to snape in the first place... lucius would flip his lid...lmao... this is just my being funny by the way, i don't really think draco is snape's, but it would be pretty funny... imagine the look on lucius's face!!! lol

[SteffieSnape]

Draco Snape's son? *looks around* *bursts out laughing*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Good one! But yeah, I'd have to agree with you to disagree. I really doubt that is likely, hehehehehe..... Draco already has too many of Lucius' traits. But yeah, that is funny. Too funny actually! *laughs again* Nice one!

You know, in one of the interviews on Mugglenet with Jo after HBP, someone asked if Snape was ever loved by anyone, and she said yes. I was wondering who this was. I know this is fanfictiony here, but I always wondered if maybe Narcissa did have a thing for Snape. I dunno.... it oculd be a possibility.... but Lucius being the Pureblood got Narcissa and she had to love Snape from a distance. hehehehehe.... that's prolly out on a limb but who knows. I want to know who loved him or does love him... and I hope it wasn't just his mother. HAHA!

I also agree..... Snape is prolly more than likely a dead man, but I dunno just yet. I can't see Harry letting Snape explain anything either, Harry being who he is. We all know how Harry is. Sometimes it's good for him to dive into action, it's saved him many a time.... but there are times when he needs to tone it down and think first, and listen to something besides that big jump-to-conclusion-voice in his head. In some ways however... Harry has really matured in HBP but he still has a ways to go, if he makes it anyways, haha.

But anyways.... I can sorta see Harry finding Snape or Snape actually going to Harry and in my head I cansee them facing off for a duel, naturally.... hehehehe. But I can kinda see Harry questioning Snape about everything under the sun and why he is the way he is and you caused my parents death and who I am and blah blah boo hoo crap.... before he tries to killl him or do him major harm. I think it would be a great scene! I know Jo is planning something big for their next encounter and I can already see visions of it inmy head like little sugar plums! HAHAHA!

I do feel bad for Snape though, like you feel bad for Voldie. Snape has been treated like a puppet practically, a toy and a leverage device almost. It's sad he had to become what he has, but hopefully everything will right itself in the end. Almost everyone has a chance for redemption, except for Voldie of course. He is too far gone to ever come back. Besides.... he was creepy enough as a kid... so who'd want him around if he was redeemed even slightly? Uhhhh.... not me!!!

But Voldie is a sad character in a way too, being more pathetic really. When we saw him as a child part of me wanted to feel bad for him but then I was like, god that kid is gonna grow up to be a wacko! hahahaha! Even as a child we saw his evil side... he wasn't as innocent as most children are. He had a hunger for pain and darkness... which grew as time went by and he realized how powerful he could be. Even as child he knew he was pwerful, and he liked it. He never knew love, no one ever loved him, which is why he is so evil and as Jo says he can't be redeemed.

So, of course, this is a different light for Snape, who has been loved and knows love. Sigh, I just really want to hold on to his light side. I think he deserves some peace once and for all. Hey! Maybe he and Harry will make up and go away to a tropical paradise together on vacation! Weeeeeeeee! They can drink coconuts all day under the sun, rubbing lotion on each others back! Woo hoo! Ummmmm....... *bursts out laughing again* Maybe not... hehehehe!

But yeah.... even if Snape has a damn good story to tell, I doubt Harry will ever forgive him for everything. He might possibly be able to trust him slightly given time, but he'll still always feel that anger towards him for practically being the one to kill his parents. But.... as we don't know the entire truth yet we will just have to wait and see. Grrrr.... this waiting thing really SUCKS doesn't it? *sighs and looks out window bored as blue birdies fly by and breathe fire*

uhhhh... Toodles!