abortion, take of the kid gloves

According to our manuals from the pregnancy center, during week 3 of the pregnancy, the heart begins to beat. Is it still just a mass of cells, even when it has a heartbeat? Our heart makes us live, it pumps our blood. If a baby's heart is beating, does that still make it just a mass of cells, or is it possible that it is really alive?

Just because it has a heart beat doesn't mean it has any sense of self awareness.

I never said a mass of cells weren't "alive", but they're in no way cognisant at that point in time. Though I suppose it could be argued that they are cognisant in the same way that cancer cells are cognisant enough to reproduce themselves.

As far as I'm concerned it's not really a baby until after 16 weeks. Before that it's just a foetus. Emotive arguments calling the foetus a baby in like week three are silly.

If your saying that if it can't think it's not alive or "Actually alive". IF that so that stupid beta fish that lives in my kitchen is really pain in my ass. Good idea I'll just go down stairs pull it out of its bowl yank of its fins then flush it down the tiolet. That's alright isn't it, considering that a 3 week old foetus has no dignity I mean come on if wonton killing of unborn babys is alright. Fetus should at least have more dignity than my fish.

This is a picture of a blob of tissue at six weeks
http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/facts/fig20baby7.jpg If the hyper link doesn't work just copy and paste it.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with your argument.

A foetus isn't legally alive, it doesn't have any rights or dignity.

Question. what makes it legally alive? You better not say the ruling of a fat adulterus president who ran the country in the ninetys. If That isnt clear Bill clinto said while in office, that a baby isn't a person until he is a week old.

I was born 2 months early, was I not human for the first 9 weeks of my life. According to the prochoicers I wasn't.

A human in any stage of its life has more dignity than any animal yet if abused and killed my pets I would be aressted. But people who kill humans are aplauded. Of course this means nothing to you becous a fetus has no dignity, no right hell its not even legally alive. Frankly that arguement sounds more like a justification than a arguement.

I'm not American, so I'm not up on American abortion laws.

I was born three and a half months early, so the premmie card doesn't really work with me.

Legally, a foetus isn't alive until after 12 weeks. That's what the legislators have decided after much deliberation and evidence by the medical profession.

I don't begrudge anyone who wants an elective abortion within reason. I think it's disgusting that people want to take that right away. No one should be able to tell me what I can and can't do with my body.

I'm a conscious, breathing, self aware human being, my rights are of more importance than a foetus that exists in a parasitic (or symbiotic) manner. It has no self awareness, no consciousness. Therefore it has no legal rights. That's just how it is at the moment.

And let's be realistic, I'd much rather women be able to get legal abortions, than have to go to backyard abortion clinics and put their lives at risk. That's what people will do if they can't get legal abortions, or they'll just fly to another state/country, where they can.

FYI: I also support Euthanasia. People should be allowed to end their lives with dignity, if they don't want palliative care. But that's another debate.

What you've got to realize is that the only reason that the foetus (I don't really like that word...) does not have legal rights, is because the governments of the world have DECIDED that it does not have rights. The fact is though, allowing that foetus to be killed, regardless of its "parasitic" situation, is the same thing as killing any other person.

Think about it, assuming there were no complications, the foetus would have grown into an adult, just like the rest of the world's people. That, in my eyes, technically makes it a person just like anyone else, regardless of its size, or living situation.

All this coming from a liberal.

But, this is just what I think. Don't get offended, just hear out my views.

Yes, I do realise that laws are made by humans, who aren't always right.

In my mind, the point is the aborted foetus is not going to develop into a person. So why think about it what they would have become given the chance? It's kind of pointless.

There are enough people in the world to be concerned with.

IF you were three months early then the premmie card should hit closer to home. I still maintian that your arguement sounds like a justification not an actually arguement. You have never given a reason why a fetus has no rights or no dignity only repaeted that it is the law that takes away its dignity and its rights. Hitler created laws that took away the rights of jews but that didn't make them any less dignified.

I would alos like to say that the law doesn't make something just. I.E. Abortion is legal that doesn't make it right.

No, it doesn't really. I was either going to live or die, it's not something that I had any control over. I wouldn't have been cognisant of it. So it doesn't really matter to me.

A foetus has no rights because the law says it's not alive until the baby takes it's first breath. I don't really see what dignity has to do with it.

I don't see how Hitler's regime is connected to this either.

I have a question for you, if a woman is raped does she not have a right to an abortion because she'd be committing murder? If you think that a rape victim should be allowed to have an abortion, then I'd like to know how you justify that to yourself, given your stance.

A rape is a horrible crime. However 2 wrongs don't make a right. It is unfortunate if a woman becomes pregnant because of a rape but I don't believe abortion is acceptable under these very hard conditions. After he/ she is born the mother does not have to keep him. I'm not calus however I don't believe hardship and inconvience justify murder. As a matter of fact I find this act of playing God decieding who lives and who dies quiet arrogant of us lowly creations. We have put our selves on a high platform giving us a selfrightousness that is foul and even vulgare.

Please disregaurd the above rant (I'm having a rough week). Three pionts remain though.

1. Two wrongs don't make a right.

2. Who are we to play God a decide who lives and who dies.

3. The ends do not justify the means. (There are obviosly exceptions to this rule but for the most part it stands)