Mousekiller's Big Waaaaagghhhh!

[mousekiller]

Ok folks, this week brings a little progress. I know, if you are anything like me, when you open a thread you want to see the completed project, but I will tell you, that updating these threads weekly definitely is keeping me motivated to paint.



10 more to go and the unit will be done...

[Lord Blackstaff]

Same comments on shadows with the vampire counts hold here. Especially with the clothing ripples. You also may want to consider skin tones, as they are never one colour, but several combined. This does not include comic style art, which frequently has single skin tone colours.

[mousekiller]

This week ends with the skin and robes being completely done.




LB: Thanks again for the advice mate. I do like the more cartoony look of the goblin skin though... when I start rolling out the orcs I think we can try some different skin textures.

[Lord Blackstaff]

I'm seeing some definite improvements here. Good job. It's much easier to see the details now.

Though the wooden clubs have a particularly plastic look to them, you'll want to add a bit of grime to them, and the ridges need more shadows in them. Basically add a tiny bit of variation in the wood tones, as it's never one single colour.

Add some texture and come up with a colour scheme for the flag that isn't straight bronzish. Although, my own experience with cloth is one of great difficulty as getting the texturing right for fibres is ridiculously hard sometimes.

The shield and net could also do with a fair bit of colour variation too.

[mousekiller]

Well, sorry about the gap in updates last week, but my brother came into town and I convinced him to play a skirmish battle of warhammer with me. We used two of the lists that I am working on painting, the Empire and Goblins. The battle itself was 500 points apiece, and ended in a massacre of the Empire, though in his defense he had horrible luck with the dice.

Gobbos: 20 Speargobbos w/cmd and fanatic, 20 bowgobbos w/cmd and fanatic, 3 snotling swarms, 3 trolls, boss, and shaman
Empire: 5 Knights Panther, 10 Spearmen, 5 Crossbowmen, 5 Handgunners, and Luthor Huss

The board itself was set up with three buildings on each side, and a group of 5 trees in the very center. Roughly a 4x6 table.

To make it brief (the game only lasted 5 turns), my brother decided to send the spears with the handgunners and crossbowmen as detachments to the right of the woods, and his knights with Luthor Huss to the left. I sent the bowgobbos (and shaman) and snotlings to counter the knights, the trolls to counter the spears, and the speargobbos (and boss) straight towards the woods with the intent to veer them in the direction they would be needed most. It took about two turns to finally reach each other in about the middle of the board. His knights charged my bowgobbos, who released the fanatic - killing 2 of his knights right away. Finishing his charge he killed one goblin and the shaman. The next turn the speargobbos charged to his flank, and the snotlings were prepared to charge his rear. This was pretty much the end of it for the knights.



On the other side of the table, the trolls had lost the stupidity roll twice in a roll, and so were slowly shambling across the board as my brother shot at them with his handgunners and crossbowmen, though every successful hit resulted in a regeneration. When the trolls finally charged forwards into the spearmen is in the same turn that the knights and Luthor were destroyed, and my brother surrendered the game.



So, here were my observations during the game. It is very hard to believe that Luthor only had two attacks, this severely weakened him in the game compared to the night goblin boss who had three. I thought maybe this was an error in the book, but all warrior priests and Arch Lectors only have two attacks- a significant reduction in their fighting ability. Also, a lack of magic on the side of the empire made it easy to counter every prayer that the priest attempted to cast. I think to make this army any good, it will take adding a magician in the next installment of the empire. Finally, the fanatics really tore into the knights from the beginning (and this is not to mention that I forgot about the other fanatic with the speargobbos, but by the point I remembered the empire was already being crushed).

Any thoughts?

BTW, more painting updates coming at the end of the weekend.

LBS: Thanks mate for the advice. The close of this weekend should see these five gobbos done.

[mousekiller]

Ok, so the next 5 clubgobbos are done.




And then there were 15... 5 more to finish the unit out... almost done...

[Flailing Axes]

Wonderful, as always. Although, the brown cloth on the backs of the goblins looks a bit blurred. I'd have put it down to the camera, but the detail on the left one seems really sharp, whereas the second and third one look a bit...rushed? they just don't look as sharp as the rest of the model. Not sure how you'd make it any different, Lb's the one who knows what to do with a paintbrush

The banner is very, very pretty. I've always had a thing with banners, always thought they should be representitive of the unit, so I don't like linearity with them. This one has no faults I can spot, but then again, I'm not exactly an expert. It looks pretty to me.

Banner aside though, I can't see anything that's really distinguishable, between these guys and another excellently painted unit. You've given most of your units a bit of a backstory, It'd be nice to see some of that reflcted in your models. Token of a previous victory. A black-eye on the champion who got punched by Skeezer. Something like that.

[Lord Blackstaff]

Vewwwy niiiice.

You've done an excellent job of bringing those little guys out of their shells.

A few points of note that stood out.
Flaxes is right, there is a distinction between the hobgobbie on the left and the rest. Mainly because his shading is a good deal darker then the rest. I'm guessing you either made a mistake and had to cover it up, or just ended up doing him darker. Either way, his clothing is a bit more defined then the rest. You could probably darken the central shadow points of the clothing on the others, so the very middle bits of the shadowing areas.

The net claw thingos look a bit undefined, you may want to sharpen them up and try to add an edge, if possible. So they look a bit more deadly.

You did an awesome job with the banner! Well done! But did you air spray that picture in the middle, because I can catch faint tones of red around the edges, not sure if it's the camera or shadows though.

The hobgobbie hands could really do with a lot of shadow work, they're a little mushy and undefined. You do still have a bit of issue with that, especially with the red colour and that ogre face. I'd advise getting the smallest brush you have and 'scratching' the paint onto the areas where contrast can be given, and sharpening out lines and so forth. So really just trying to get those tiny tiny details in. And a proper application of tiny details is like taking your models from HQ to HD.

Very good job. I'm liking them, just make sure you don't muddle to paints up when doing shadows, as can happen. You want sharp, clear definitions most of the time.

[mousekiller]

Ok, here is the next last 5 plus the fanatic in progress.



And here is what the squig herd will look like once we get them all painted and put together...



And the two squig herders in progress...



LBS: Thanks. Very good point on the moon shape claw things, I will see what I can do to make them more blade like... no airspraying of pics here, just normal photograph and cropping - could be the camera though, it is a bit older... I will try to get a bit more definition in those deeper shadows if I can.

Flailing Axes: You are definitely right, though I think part of it is that some of the models are older metal models (with much better model definition) and so the shadows are taking to them much easier. I will try to keep a similar contrast if I can. I like the idea of the backstory, I will see what I can do...

Thanks guys for your input, it is very very constructive and more then I have received in a long long time. I am really glad that I came back to this site. You guys rock.

[Lord Blackstaff]

Heh, I've spent years on artistic forums. So I've had a lot of practice/experience, so to speak. Mainly just exposure.

Now, onto your stuff, I don't usually like critiquing wips of artists who clearly have it going for them, as its easier to point out issues later on in the composition, when they need input more, but I'll try.

The squig herd is coming along nicely, you should definitely play with skin texturing, mud and blood effects with them. But there is little else I can say at this point, since they do look very good.

As to the fanatics, as always, shadows, details, and maybe a bit of grime and gore wouldn't be out of place. See how dirty you can make them without ruining everything. Same with the squig herders. It would be a nice opportunity to play with their skin tones, but that's entirely up to you.

Good luck! You've got a promising start, but that's really as much as I can say.

I suppose this is as good a time as any to say why I go on about details and shadows so much.

For shadows, its because this is essentially one of the most important aspects of painting, drawing, or any sort of art that tries to replicate reality in some way.
Why are they important? Because they are the product of light, they simulate where the light is not. Thus, a good grasp of shadows means you have a good grasp of light, which is fundamental in a piece. There's a reason artists study light, and that's because they can convey so much more in an image if they have good lighting.

Shadows also serve another, secondary role. And that is the role of definition. Light scattering is extremely complex, and most people don't realise that, unless you have light sources perfectly positioned at multiple points, an object will exhibit shadowing in any irregular point. Thus, shadows act as a definition for details and depth even though not necessarily directly related to the light source in the image. In 3D this appears in many forms, one of which being atmospheric, or ambient occlusion lighting, which simulates a generalised light source without any particular point of reference. It means you can show off detail in a model without setting up complicated lighting rigs.

Shadows are essentially paramount for detailing in almost anything to do with art. But they are also important as a vehicle through which drama can be conveyed in a piece.

Now we get to detailing. A lot of painters overlook this part, often painting in a general form and shape with general details, without concentrating on them. Now this is legitimate, but it often overlooks the power that detailing has in an image, or painting etc. Details aren't there to stand out, they're the little things that make people keep on coming back to an image or sculpture etc. They are what defines one artist from the next, they are like a personal signature. They're those little details in the scars on a face, the tears in a uniform, the clutter in the background of a room, the insignia on a clothing item, the shape of the leaves, and their form as they scatter in the wind. Details are in everything, and should not be immediately noticeable, but once noticed they give the viewer the pleasure of finding them, and sometimes the meaning behind them. They give the artist the pleasure of putting them in his/her work of art.

They are your vehicle for expressing your love for what you do, and allow you to express things that you might not otherwise be able to. Though you won't necessarily notice them, details are what makes one image unique amoung it's peers.

Both shadows and details are extremely important in the sort of artwork that you do, and you should never overlook them. Details define your models over your fellows and will eventually define your work above that of your peers. Shadows will simply allow you to express those details better, and improve the general quality of your models. They add definition that will not necessarily show up.

I hope that made some sense. Good luck!