Hope this don't make Janie mad...

[Johnny]

Let me first say I have no dog in this hunt, nor do I hope to anytime soon.

I think Bracket Racing need to operate on the level system. In other words, if you don't like the payout in No-E, move up to Pro. If you don't like the payout in Pro, move up to Super Pro. If you think you are getting lost in the shuffle, move up to Quick. If you don't think you are being treated right in Quick, and don't like the money, go run Backhalf or Pro Mod. If you are still not happy, step up to Pro Stock or Top Fuel.

I think No-E's growth has been stunted by the Super Pro racers droping back and demanding the class running for more money. Remember this, for every dollar you go past $20 entry fee, you lose a potential new customer. When the car counts get bigger in No-E, rater that immediately raising entry fees and to win money is not the answer to growing it. What I would rather see the next time they get a huge jump car count, is shave a little off the 'ol entry fee and let's see how many old racers we can get back and new racers we can pull in. Dont be too hard on me.

Later,
Johnny

[Heartbreaker]

That actually made since to me???????

[Yellow1]

That makes sense to me too, but that's the battle I always seem to be fighting. I have a pretty low budget race operation, I don't mind racing for low pay-outs, and having low entry fees. There is always the big budget guys wanting to raise the stakes because they can afford it. I know, if you don't have the money, collect stamps or fly kites, but there are lots of people that have fun running cheaper combos. Remember, I don't care what Win/Runner-up pays, I just want to know what round it starts paying! I'm not out to be in the final rounds, I just go to have fun. Just like I don't need a new trailer, or think I can even make a few rounds, but I might enter the big N/E race this weekend, just for fun...

[Heartbreaker]

Here is something else to ponder. The Texas Muscle Car Club Challenge races pay $0 to win and a $25 - $30 entry fee. You get a trophy and a prize (jacket, watch, gift cert....) for winning a class. With that said this race series almost always have over 150 cars running on a single day. No 1 person running 3,4 or even 5 classes. Just each car running 1 class and it is just for fun. That just goes to show not everyone races for the money.

[larry bounds]

i agree with johnny. if you are racing in noe for the big money then you are in the wrong class. every time the deep pocket guys want to ante up the entry and payout you lose more people because they can't really afford it. i know you are gonna say then why do you race if you can't afford it. because it used to be fun. and for the competition. not for the money. look what the deep pocket boys are doing to king of the hill. several years ago you had 20 to 30 cars show up for a king of the hill race now look at it. if they get 16 they are really lucky. they may have a 100 members but where are they now. look at bracket racers that you know and where are they now. look at the median age of bracket racers. there just not that many youngsters doing it. what's the solution. i don't know. but deep thought and care should be done before changes are made to any of the programs. just my one cents worth. used to be two cents worth but not worth that much anymore.

[Janie]

That did not make me mad. No dog in the hunt here. However, I believe that is old school thinking. The muscle car point makes mine. Muscle car racers show up because of the love of the cars and nostalgia racing as the motivator. At this point in time, No-E has no motivator except habit. At this point in time, the payout does not attract the purpose built cars. They sit around and wait for divisional races where payout is not the only motivator. That can continue-no problem for them. Big problem for local track owners in competition for more cars. The electronic population is tapped.

Many No-E cars sit at home every weekend. I believe they will show up for the Trailer Man race. What if these cars were motivated to show up every weekend?

No-E continues to be viewed as a lesser class. Big mistake in my thinking.

[Yellow1]

Uh, probably looking to get slapped here, but Janie said the Muscle Car Challenge made her point, but then wants N/E to be a bigger money class? Bigger payouts mean bigger entry fees. The Muscle Car has no payout, and a small entry. I did run them a few years ago, but they keep falling on my model airplane Pylon Races. Good points keep coming up here, like KOTH, I've missed all of them this year so far, and have not been too disappointed, due to like Larry said, the deep pocket racers have run most of the competition off. So now you go see five 4 sec cars, and a few low fives. We need an advance N/E class for for all the roadsters and "deep pocket" racers. Which I believe is closer to Q N/E.

[Johnny]

I agree with one thing you say, Janie, Super Pro is tapped out. Super Pro racers have lots of choices, and now with top dragster, top sportsman, and 470 class, there is a chance that we lose even more racers.

Which brings us back to my point, if your top class is the biggest, it's gonna be pretty hard to replenish these lost racers. Thus the importance of getting No-E and Pro growing again.

[Yellow1]

It's gonna be hard to keep classes like Pro growing when "Big Dogs" like you jump in and clean up! By the way....Good job on the win! I just wish I could have hung in another couple of rounds. Are we going to see more of you racing this year? HeHe, is that your old Anglia out there lately? Just joking....again...

[Johnny]

It's not as bad having a S/Pro guy running pro as it is having a S/Pro guy running NO/E Guess i need to get a no/e car to so i can keep up with the Jones

[Yellow1]

Just poking at ya! Especially the remark about the Old Timer Anglia...If it wasn't for S/Pro cars, Pro would only have maybe 8 cars. I think Pro counts are in trouble because S/Pro has so many dragsters, and those that double tech can run Quick. Same with the really fast door cars. Even with the S/Pro drivers, Pro is still a middle of the road class for most of us. Run it some more, and bring a few friends too.

[duck]

When I first started racing after my divorce, I chose TXR over the Plex based on e.t. breaks, and for no other reason. The Plex had S/P, Pro, and Heavy, anyway my car fell into the Heavy eliminator. So I could go to the Plex and run for $100.00 or go to TXR and run Pro for twice the money for the same entry. I am a little surprised that we don't have more cars running in Pro. Walt mentions the fact that a lot of door cars dislike running the diggers(however it hasn't helped me much) so you would think Pro would be busting at the seams. In the late 1990's Pro often had over 64 entrys which I also didn't like because it required a racer to win four rounds to get a check. But where have the Pro cars gone? From what I've seen, many have either moved up to faster cars or left the sport and we've failed to attract new racers to fill the void. I have talked to a few past TXR Pro racers that now attend the Plex and race with TXR from time to time, and they say why run Pro when it pays so little. It just kills me to see a racer bust his butt to make it to the simi's only to receive their entry fee back. Sometimes it makes me wish I had my wagon running and try to make Pro fun again. Let's talk Pro up, I know I haven't raced in it in a while but it is a great eliminator and it will be missed if we ever lose it. Later buckeroos

[Parrothead]

Y'all remember when the index in Pro was 7:50? Didnt take much race car to be competitive in it.My Duster is a good example of what a pro car USED to be.Warmed over motor,Factory suspension,10 1/2 inch slick.If the car wasnt too heavy it would run in the 7:50 range pretty easy.There were also a lot in the 8 sec range! these cars may not consistently 60 ft and run dead-on out the back door all night,But they were fairly cheap to buy or build.Then, as I understand it.There were some S/Pro racers who approached Hutch and told him they would also run pro if the index was dropped to 7:00.This was done mid season.In my opinion (insert 2 cent remark here)that was the beginning of the end of pro as we knew it.Car counts were consistently low.So to "save the class?" the index was dropped to 6:40! So you had a lot of very nice and very deadly(expensive) Race cars with really good and experinced drivers,like sharks dropped into the pro minnow bucket. That brings us to where we are today--A second class for S/Pro drivers who can afford to buy 2 cards every week.Even though we have a lot of 6 sec cars in N/E now,I think you would see a lot more N/E racers give pro a shot if the index was back at 7 or 7:50

---Indecision may or may not be my problem ----

[Janie]

O.K. Toe in the water. You guys started this. Here is the other bandwagon.

First the subject of payout. Having tagged along with Mike this year, I now realize, and want to be the first to say that payout compared to entry fees for THE WINNER in all classes at TXR, at least, is good. Payout, alone, at National and Divisional events is ridiculous devoid of dependable contingency follow through. But the same pervasive winner take all and try harder for every one else who makes it past third round attitude persists. Furthermore, the perportionate racing population which attends Divisional and National events is abysmal. I think payout is the reason. However NHRA does not have to care. Furthermore, 70 to 100 cars per class-or less- is great with them. The bigger payout for bigger buck cars theory also rules. IHRA has a different attitude-at least for the Stocker Class which is all I know about-and is, therefore, growing.

On the local level, racing population has to be grown. I only know how I was hooked. It was not with those winner checks. Never got but one in over ten years of racing. I was only fast enough to race Pro. I lived for two things. "OK racers-listen up- PRO- bring 'em to the staging lanes-MONEY ROUND." Remember that? It seemed I would always meet Mike Pack in the third or fourth round-money round-but I would go out with a check for $25-my entry fee- and could say at work that I went enough rounds to get a check. No one ever asked how much. I lived for that. AND I did it with Mike dialing a $4500 car-he will kill me for putting that into print. I'm satisfied that if I had started racing now and had to make it to the quarters to get a check, I'd still be at home chasing armadillos.

[Johnny]

A quote from George Howard: off the DRO site

But the big thing I’m going to have next year is a real low ticket price. You come in for the weekend and it’ll be 25 bucks. You can race, you can spectate, you can enter the car show, you can set up in the swap meet, whatever. No matter what you want to do it’ll be $25, that’s the most money you’re going to spend at that racetrack. I’m going to roll the clock back and make it affordable to more people. I want to put some fun back in drag racing.