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 Search For Wtc 7 South Upper And Lower Lobby Photo, Where are the WTC7 lobby area photos
DoYouEverWonder
Posted: Jun 24 2007, 09:30 PM


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QUOTE (hturt @ Jun 24 2007, 05:19 PM)
Dr. Steven Jones said the company NIST commissioned to do the WTC7 report were asked only to look at floors 8 thru 46. WTC7 has 47 floors with sub floors.

If anyone thinks NIST is going to put out a report that would not support the OTC they are deluded; the fix is already in.

One big reason why the NIST folks only looked at the floors from 8 up. The building failed between the 5th and 7th floors, which is where the trusses were that held the building up over the ConEd substation. NIST knows that this is where the building failed first and where it had to fail in order for the rest of the building to come down the way it did.

Funny thing about those lower floors. The 5th floor is where Jerome Hauer installed the a pressurized fuel system to deliver fuel from the storage tanks on the lower levels to the generators that were housed on the 5th floor. Even though WTC 7 was a sprinklered building, they didn't bother to install any sprinklers or other type of fire supression system on the fifth floor. Nice of them to install all those pipes to pump fuel right under the feet of all those trusses.
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Ferric Oxide
Posted: Jun 25 2007, 08:30 AM


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OK, but remember. This thread is about publishing the existing photos of the WTC 7 Division triage area, which opened at 9:30am on 9/11/2001. And publishing the photos of the evacuation of WTC7--likely from the upper south lobby on 911---and locating interior south upper and lower lobby photos and video to corroberate the witness testimony. Spak, Cirone and others likely have this video. Note that Spak has only released edited clips with debunker commentary, not unedited footage. For example, although he shows fairly far shots of the smoke emanating from WTC 7 , he has cut the footage of voluminous amounts of smoke emanating from WTC 5 and 6 and rising to the south side of WTC 7.

For this reason, we need the existing reasonably close up shots of the south side lobby areas (upper and lower). This (along with the existing testimony), will be the only way to verify what went on in and around the WTC 7 triage area on 911. I can only hope that the witness (and others) have provided Dylan and Jason, et al, with the data.

(Posted Image)
Above: Willie Cirone took many photographs on 911 in the area of WTC7. many were used in the NIST report itself. Published photos include the Vesey Street Bridge after the collapse of WTC 1. He needs to release the WTC7 lobby photos and photos showing the evacuation of Guiliani and others as they actually are leaving WTC7, and of the triage division center in WTC7 and the alleged damage in the actual lobby.
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waterdancer
Posted: Jul 2 2007, 10:51 PM


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just a few additions:
Spak wouldn't have had triage shots, since he says that he arrived at ground zero just after the second tower fell (see article). That doesn't mean that he doesn't have unreleased/higher res. versions of WTC 7 that we'd like to see, of course.

Vesey Street video showing the promenade between collapses:
http://www.archive.org/details/cbs200109111733-1814
(appears at the beginning of this footage and a longer version is broadcast beginning @ 4:12)

possibly some more footage of WTC 7 lobby? (I can't positively identify it, but it looks like it to me- perhaps a higher res. version of it will show a shot of a 7 on the glass front at around 22:14, I dunno)
starting @ 22:02 - approximately (the footage before it is certainly identified by the ATF worker as being in front of WTC 7 below the promenade, but the footage cuts) the words on the wall beside the escalator say "Up To Main Lobby"
http://www.archive.org/details/bbc200109111121-1202
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Ferric Oxide
Posted: Jul 7 2007, 09:57 PM


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Dude, in that clip you posted of the WTC7 promenade, did you see the news reporter after they showed the collapse of WTC 7. It's at about minute 6:06 of the 41 minute clip. This should be extracted and posted separately the guy says:

Regarding WTC 7:

Corrected url: Controlled demo comment by CBS affiliate anchor at about 6:04

News anchor: "I don't know if it was accomplished by demolition experts, or if it happened as a consequence of what happened earlier today."

Why would he say that?


Anyway, good new stuff, but I have yet to see the WTC 7 triage center at about 9:30am of the lobby of WTC 7.
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chris sarns
Posted: Jul 8 2007, 02:30 AM


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Ferric Oxide

You posted the wrong URL

Here's the right one again

http://www.archive.org/details/cbs200109111733-1814

5:55 to 6:19 would make a nice addition to the debate.

Put that together with Dan Rather and Peter Jennings(?)

BTW how do you use a word [or sentence] for a URL?

Also, thanx for the pics from, if not of, the south side.
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miragememories
Posted: Jul 8 2007, 05:30 PM


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QUOTE (DoYouEverWonder @ Jun 15 2007, 04:11 PM)
Also,  do any of the Official Myth reports address the ConEd Substation that was located down there? If that caught fire, what would have happened?


QUOTE (e^n @ Jun 15 2007, 05:15 PM)

I'm not entirely sure what you mean, the NIST Preliminary WTC7 report addresses the ConEd substation existing, but not it's flammable contents, I would imagine several hundred gallons of mineral oil at the least (transformer coolant).

I'm sure the final report will contain some more details if it's deemed relevant.

Ah yes the final report now further delayed (stalled) until the end of this year.

MM
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waterdancer
Posted: Jul 9 2007, 01:34 AM


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QUOTE (Ferric Oxide @ Jul 8 2007, 02:57 AM)
Anyway, good new stuff, but I have yet to see the WTC 7 triage center at about 9:30am of the lobby of WTC 7.

Do we know precisely where the lobby triage center was? The reason I ask is because WTC 7 had 2 lobbies basically. Street level and third floor. If triage was occurring on street level, then isn't that what we are seeing the ATF employee walking past in one of the clips posted earlier? People being moved around on stretchers? Looks like it qualifies as triage footage to me...
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Ferric Oxide
Posted: Jul 9 2007, 08:54 PM


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Could be. Well, I am not sure if it's the upper or lower lobby. I am writing to Cirone to get some of his stuff, and I'm going to ask the NIST guy again.
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kupci
Posted: Jul 10 2007, 01:29 AM


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QUOTE (Ferric Oxide @ May 18 2007, 12:39 PM)
Remember, I am looking for ANY photos of that area after the WTC 1 strike, after the WTC 2 strike, after the WTC2 collapse, or after the WTC 1 collapse.

Have you seen "WTC the first 24 hours" by Etienne Sauret? No commentary, but I believe in the background, at one point, he has a shot of 7 collapsing. Granted, not close at all.

He seems to wander around the buildings, not sure how he got in their with a camera, has some shots of a building with an atrium with palm trees.

In another shot, I think in one of the sandwich shops, someone has spray painted "vidence <<<<" on the wall. Couldn't read it, though it was "Providence" or something like that, then I see the word is "Evidence". Wonder what the heck they meant?

Can't say I thoroughly reviewed the film, but it certainly does capture the shear amount of dust, and the smoldering piles of debris, much like the giant aftermath of your basic grill fire, i.e. smoldering ruins. In one scene, he captures a car exploding and burning.

Also amazing how quickly they got the dozers in to start plowing up the stuff. You'd think they'd have waited a bit, to get all the people out - so the last part is misleading, where someone is wandering around saying "hello?" I note that in the earthquake in Turkey a few years back, they were searching for people for days, perhaps a week afterward.

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dylan avery
Posted: Jul 11 2007, 10:45 AM


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QUOTE (Ferric Oxide @ Jun 25 2007, 01:30 PM)
Note that Spak has only released edited clips with debunker commentary, not unedited footage.

Get his DVD off Amazon. It contains alot of footage.

http://www.amazon.com/WTC-11-01-Day-Disaster/dp/B00066TBH6/
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Ferric Oxide
Posted: Jul 11 2007, 08:00 PM


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OK Dylan,

I'll pick up Spak's DVD. I assume it will show the upper and lower lobbies of WTC 7 during the day, inside and out. I assume it will show the various entities entering and leaving the building, such as firefighters, Guliani. And I assume it will verify the casualties in the lobby of WTC 7.

THE PHOTOS DO EXIST.


This is really the crux of the case, Dylan. If the EXISTING footage and stills from the interior triage can be obtained to verify the statements from your eyewitness, then it is a done deal. An information packet can be compiled and sent to the district attorney in NY.

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Ferric Oxide
Posted: Jul 14 2007, 08:56 AM


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I'm posting this short WTC 7 related clip here. I will add triage photos of from the "WTC 7 Division" as they become available.

The short clip is from an eyewitness interviewed by Dianne Sawyer.

The unrelated pdf is the official triage set up flow chart listing the WTC 7 Division, where we need to obtain the photos to verify the eyewitness story--to compile and send to a county DA in NY. Posted below the photo.

(Posted Image)

You Tube: WTC 7 testimony

Above:Diane Sawyer an eyewitness on ABC News Live Coverage who said: "At Building 7 there was no fire there whatsoever, but there was one truck putting water on the building, but it collapsed completely."
My note: I agree with the comments which state that the person was likely speaking of the condition of WTC 7 after its collapse. However, I have a short clip of some fire on the debris pile that I'll post at this forum. The visible fires on top of the debris pile was minimal. A follow up question for this individual would have been: "Where in and around WTC 7 were you located? Did you go into the upper and lower lobby areas on the south side? Please describe what you saw?"

(Posted Image)

Large JPEG: Initial EMT Organization-Pre-Collapse-9:59 AM-11 Sep 2001
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MaGZ
Posted: Jul 14 2007, 11:26 AM


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QUOTE (xBIGGSx @ May 17 2007, 10:40 PM)
QUOTE (Ferric Oxide @ May 17 2007, 12:02 PM)
(Posted Image)

I find this picture interesting because it shows that only light debris (the huge cloud of smoke) reached just ONE side of WTC 7 yet the government claims that the fires in the building were started by falling debris from WTC 1. Did anybody see a flaming cloud of smoke? If there was fire in the debris then why would it not ignite Bankers Trust whose entire building was within the light debris zone?

I think a missile fired by one of the fighters sent from Otis Air National Guard Base hit WTC 7 on the south side 14th floor at 9:03 that morning of 9/11. The F-16 fighter fired a missile in attempt to shoot down flight 175. The missile missed flight 175 and hit WTC 7 by mistake. The explosion attorney Berry Jennings experienced in WTC 7 was from the missile hit. WTC 7 fires were stated by the missile, not debris from the Twin Towers.
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MaGZ
Posted: Jul 14 2007, 11:39 AM


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QUOTE (Ferric Oxide @ Jun 6 2007, 10:54 AM)
Guiliani evacuated the building. I am certain there are photos and video of the evacuation, the triage center, and "others" entering and leaving the building. I can not stress enough that it is vitally important that we get these photos and video. It is the only way (aside from testing the steel and observing collapse videos) that we can see what went on by observing who went in and out of there during the day.




(Posted Image)
Above: The intact Vesey Street bridge is seen from in front of the WTC 7 Lobby. Building 5 and 6 are on the right of the photographer.

Below:One can see the lower lobby entrance of the WTC 7 south side after the collapse of the towers in the condition stated in the NIST report.
"2-No heavy debris observed in lobby area, white dust coating."

(Posted Image)
(Posted Image)

Here is the reference video to help us pinpoint time and place:
Building 7 South Side Lower Lobby with view of Vesey Street Bridge

Note that the south lobby was a triage center at 9:30am. We now need photos and video of the UPPER SOUTH SIDE LOBBY from anytime during the day on 911, and go from there. And we need many more of the photos taken of the WTC7 Division Triage Center and after the collapses of the towers.

Jim Dwyer of the New York Times told me he didn't have anything from the south side lobbies, but said I should ask NIST.

Guiliani was never inside WTC 7 on 9/11. He made it to the outside of WTC 7 on the northeast corner and was met by Bernard Kerik sometime after WTC 2 was hit. Kerik said it was unsafe to enter WTC 7 and they would have to create another command post nearby. The reason it was unsafe was because WTC 7 was on fire from the missile strike.
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DoYouEverWonder
Posted: Jul 14 2007, 12:45 PM


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QUOTE (MaGZ @ Jul 14 2007, 11:39 AM)
[QUOTE=Ferric Oxide,Jun 6 2007, 10:54 AM]Guiliani evacuated the building. I am certain there are photos and video of the evacuation, the triage center, and "others" entering and leaving the building. I can not stress enough that it is vitally important that we get these photos and video. It is the only way (aside from testing the steel and observing collapse videos) that we can see what went on by observing who went in and out of there during the day.

<snip>

Guiliani was never inside WTC 7 on 9/11. He made it to the outside of WTC 7 on the northeast corner and was met by Bernard Kerik sometime after WTC 2 was hit. Kerik said it was unsafe to enter WTC 7 and they would have to create another command post nearby. The reason it was unsafe was because WTC 7 was on fire from the missile strike.

Here's Bernie Kerik's fantasy of what happened when during the first couple of hours during the attack.

Warning: This article is almost X rated and a barf bag might not be a bad idea. :rolleyes:

QUOTE


Daily News (New York)

September 27, 2001, Thursday

HEADLINE: GIULIANI & GROUP OF TOP COPS BARELY DODGED DEATH AS TOWERS FELL

BYLINE: By JOHN MARZULLI DAILY NEWS POLICE BUREAU CHIEF


Before Sept. 11, no one in the Police Department could recall hearing the distress call "Code Black" screamed over the police radio before.

Just as a "10-13" is the radio code for officer in distress, Code Black is the call that means the mayor or the police commissioner is in danger.

When the south tower of the World Trade Center imploded, Mayor Giuliani, Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik and their top aides were trapped inside a building at 75 Barclay St.

With telephones knocked out, Kerik's bodyguard, Detective Hector Santiago, called a "Code Black" over the police radio frequency. Those who knew what it meant understood how serious the situation was. "That's the first time I ever heard a 'Code Black' called," said Kerik, who protected the Saudi royal family before he became a cop. "I knew it was bad, but I didn't know how bad."

Just how close the NYPD's top command came to being wiped out in the terrorist attack has never before been fully revealed. Kerik, along with his first deputy commissioner, the chief of department, the deputy commissioner of operations, the chief of detectives and other top brass were all in close proximity to the burning towers, and dodged rubble and debris as the structures fell.

"We were all probably too close to the scene," said Assistant Chief Thomas Fahey, a police spokesman. "We were very lucky."

When American Airlines Flight 11 crashed into the south tower at 8:48 a.m., Kerik was taking a shower in his private bathroom on the 14th floor of Police Headquarters.

Moments later, Chief of Staff John Picciano was banging on the door, telling Kerik that a plane had struck the World Trade Center. The top cop assumed it was a small twin-engine aircraft or some kind of stunt plane that hit the building by accident.

"I went to the conference room and looked out the window," Kerik said yesterday. "I thought there was no way a small plane could have done that much damage. I'm thinking it was a bomb."

Kerik dashed to his antique desk, the one once used by another police commissioner, Theodore Roosevelt, and called Giuliani, who was already heading downtown.

The top cop was out of the building and in his sleek black Chrysler Concorde within five minutes. With him were Picciano, NYPD spokesman Thomas Antenen and bodyguards Santiago and Craig Taylor.

They decamped at West Broadway between Liberty and Barclay Sts. People were running past them, screaming hysterically. There were poor souls jumping from the burning towers. Seemed like a safe spot At that moment, the NYPD brass was still not thinking terrorist attack or building collapse.

"We were thinking it was a towering inferno, that it was just going to burn," said Deputy Inspector Chris Rising, a close aide to Kerik.

Then the unimaginable happened before their eyes.

"I was turning around to talk to [Picciano] when I heard the revving of an engine," Kerik recalled. "Somebody said the plane slowed down as it got to the tower. And then the explosion.

"Over the radio the ESU [Emergency Service Unit] guys were yelling it was a United airliner. At that point, I realized it was definitely a terrorist attack.

"My mind switched gears," he said. "Now I had to think: how many more planes are there? Where are they coming from? What are the other targets?"

Two minutes later, the mayor's vehicle pulled up. Kerik told Giuliani the city was under attack.

"The first thing out of [Giuliani's] mouth - he didn't miss a beat - he said, 'We got to cut off the air space,' " Kerik said. "I told Picciano to get us some air support."

The mayor's group, which included First Deputy Mayor Joe Lhota and top aides Tony Carbonetti and Sunny Mindel, huddled with Kerik, and they decided it was too dangerous to move to the city's command center at 7 World Trade Center.

The group walked to the south side of West St. in front of the American Express building, where they saw Fire Department brass, including Bill Feehan, the first deputy commissioner; Chief of Department Pete Ganci; Deputy Chief Ray Downey, and a chaplain, Rev. Mychal Judge.

Kerik also saw a familiar NYPD face, ESU Sgt. John Coughlin who in August 2000 had responded to the top cop's own family distress call when Kerik's 15-month-old daughter was choking at his Manhattan apartment.

"When I sped home that night, he was the first person standing in my vestibule. He was playing with my baby while my wife was hysterical. I've seen him a hundred times since then," Kerik said. Coughlin hasn't been seen since the attack. "He was a great guy," Kerik said. Command center on move The mayor and the police group decided to find another command center north of the Trade Center. A retired NYPD lieutenant came by and advised them to use a Merrill Lynch office at 75 Barclay St.

As they headed toward Barclay St., it was the last time they would see the four Fire Department officials and Sgt. Coughlin alive. Rescue workers recovered the bodies of the Fire officials, but Coughlin is among the 23 NYPD cops still listed as missing.

Setting up shop in a first-floor office at Merrill, Giuliani was on the phone with the White House when a rumble was heard and the building began to shake.

A detective ran into the room and yelled, "Hit the deck!" Kerik said the windows of the Merrill Lynch building started popping.

"Then all of a sudden this gush of smoke and dust burst in through the door," he said. "I can remember thinking: 'If the building doesn't fall on us, we're going to suffocate.' "

Their bodyguards yelled "Code Black," and broadcast their location of the building. Then they grabbed Kerik and Giuliani and tried to lead them out. Building maintenance workers led them through the basement, but the group found no exit, only locked doors.

Finally, they made it out to Church St., where, miraculously, their city cars were waiting for them.

"My driver and the mayor's driver were side by side on West Broadway when the tower fell," Kerik marveled. "They backed up 80 miles per hour up West Broadway and never hit a thing. Every car around 75 Barclay St. was demolished, but they beat it out of there."

Kerik would hear a radio transmission that the first deputy commissioner and chief of department were dead. He did not know it referred to the Fire Department's Feehan and Ganci.

A team of cops was dispatched to the home of NYPD Chief of Department Joe Esposito to await further orders. Esposito turned up okay. First Deputy Joseph Dunne also turned up safe, although his sport-utility vehicle was crushed under debris.

Kerik said there is no second-guessing about having so many top cops at the scene.

"If anything happens to any one of us, there's a line of succession," he said. "Leaders should lead by example."

Did he think he was going to die?

"I was angry," Kerik said, "because it's not often in this job that you don't have control over what's going on."

http://www.albany.edu/mumford/wtc/marzulli.htm




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waterdancer
Posted: Jul 14 2007, 03:50 PM


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QUOTE (Ferric Oxide @ Jul 12 2007, 01:00 AM)
OK Dylan,

I'll pick up Spak's DVD. I assume it will show the upper and lower lobbies of WTC 7 during the day, inside and out. I assume it will show the various entities entering and leaving the building, such as firefighters, Guliani. And I assume it will verify the casualties in the lobby of WTC 7.

THE PHOTOS DO EXIST.


This is really the crux of the case, Dylan. If the EXISTING footage and stills from the interior triage can be obtained to verify the statements from your eyewitness, then it is a done deal. An information packet can be compiled and sent to the district attorney in NY.

Spak didn't arrive at GZ until shortly after the North tower collapsed...
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Ferric Oxide
Posted: Jul 15 2007, 11:47 AM


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QUOTE
MaGz said: Guiliani was never inside WTC 7 on 9/11. He made it to the outside of WTC 7 on the northeast corner and was met by Bernard Kerik sometime after WTC 2 was hit. Kerik said it was unsafe to enter WTC 7 and they would have to create another command post nearby.


Firstly, do we have a secondary source for this other than "Bernard Kerik" (that Guliani was never in, but only near WTC7)?

Secondly, this missile business is disinfo., unless you have a primary source? The missile business is a 2002 internet myth based on that chunk ejecting from WTC 2 after FLT 175 hit. Please correct me if I am wrong.


QUOTE
Waterdancer said: Spak didn't arrive at GZ until shortly after the North tower collapsed...


Great, since NIST stated that there was minimal south side lobby damage to WTC7(source on this thread. See NIST quote below), than it is certainly more likely that Spak's shots of that side are readily available.

QUOTE
NIST:
1-Heavy debris on Vesey Street and WTC 7 Promenade

2-No heavy debris observed in lobby area, white dust coating

3-SW corner damage-floors 8 to 18

4-South face damage between two exterior columns-roof level, down to 5 to 10 floors, extent not known




We must hone in on the south side upper and lower lobby TRIAGE area for the photographs. There are photos of several of the other triage areas which I can post as an example, but we really need to post the interior WTC 7 Division triage photos and video.

I think we are now back in focus.

Postscript: MaGZ: Kindly post the shot of Guliani in front of the northeast corner of WTC 7 upon his arrival there.
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Ferric Oxide
Posted: Jul 16 2007, 07:17 PM


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(Posted Image)
Each of the Divisions was further broken down. I'll try to get more specifics, and we must find the WTC 7 Division photos upper and lower lobby close up and INTERIOR-prior to and after each of the the collapses--and during the course of the afternoon before the collapse of WTC 7. Note that a New York Times reporter indicated that NIST should be asked about the WTC 7 Division photos and that NIST is also looking into a so-called "accidental" blast scenario for WTC 7.

Photo:
West Street -Triage
(Posted Image)
Photo:
Corner of Greenwich Street and North Moore-Triage
(Posted Image)
Photo:
Boo (Base of Operations)
USAR teams were housed at the Jacob K. Javits Center in Manhattan
:
(Posted Image)
Photo:
Chelsea Piers
(Posted Image)

Photo:
Pace University Triage:"By noon or one o'clock they told us we had to move from that triage site [WTC 7 Division] up to Pace University, a little further away, because Building 7 was gonna come down or being brought down."-Indira Singh, a volunteer EMT


(Posted Image)

Photo:
WTC 7 Division Triage-Inside WTC 7 Lobby (upper and lower south side) and immediately surrounding WTC 7 prior to and after WTC 2 and 1 collapses:

photo and video pending
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Ferric Oxide
Posted: Jul 28 2007, 11:11 AM


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Follow up NIST request for photos and videos in their possession. A New york Times reporter suggested that I ask them for such data.


WORLD TRADE CENTER BUILDING 7 DATA REQUEST
SOUTH SIDE UPPER AND LOWER INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR LOBBY PHOTOS, AND NATIONAL SCIENCE FOUNDATION STUDY

To:Michael E. Newman


RE:FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
June 29, 2007

CONTACT: Michael E. Newman
(301) 975-3025
michael.newman@nist.gov

Follow up request for information directly from NIST in lieu of FOIA request
July, 28, 2007

Hello,

I am writing in regard to your June 29, 2007 statement concerning the impending WTC 7 collapse analysis report.

Firstly, in your earlier report, NIST stated that it would examine hypothetical blast scenarios and their possible contributions to the collapse of WTC 7.

Secondly, Dr. Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, of UC Berkeley, who examined some of the steel from the WTC under a grant from the National Science Foundation stated on October 16, 2001, that he saw steel from WTC 7, which appeared "paper thin" (like melting ice on a lake in the Spring), and "evaporated” (through sulfidation). He stated that he did not know what could have caused such intense heat in WTC 7, but that the source certainly was not from things such as burning office furniture. He had never seen anything like it before.

My question is: Have you studied Dr. Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl's analysis regarding the "paper thin" effects on the steel (or sulfidation)?

Also: Since the "paper thin" effect (or sulfidation) may very well have contributed to the collapse of WTC 7 by weakening certain key columns, have you included this as part of the so-called “blast scenario” or as part of another scenario to describe the structural demise of WTC 7 in the upcoming 2007 report?

The exclusion of such data as collected by the National Science Foundation will only continue to raise certain questions regarding the validity of the NIST examination.

Thank you and I look forward to hearing from you,

[FeO]

P.S.: A reporter from the New York Times wrote to me stating that I should ask NIST for access to photos and video taken of the WTC 7 south side lobby areas. I specifically am referring to photos of the “WTC 7 Division” triage area inside WTC 7 at 9:30am on 11 Sep 2001. Additionally, I seek photos from the upper and lower lobby areas of the south side of Building 7 (interior lobby triage and exterior evacuation from the south side) from any time during the day of 11 Sep 2001. These photos and videos will help scientists, insurance adjusters, law enforcement, rescue workers, and general historical researchers to better understand the demise of that particular structure.
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NF911
Posted: Jul 29 2007, 10:56 AM


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