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 Second Explosion At Pentagon, At 9:43
SPreston
Posted: Sep 25 2007, 11:43 AM


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QUOTE (Terral)
The BIG plane decoy flyover just took place to take attention away from the supersonic missile traveling from the far end of the Route 27 cloverleaf (in green) . . .


Terral, the Tomahawk cruise missile is not supersonic. It is subsonic and has a speed of about 550 mph.
Also, the speed of sound/Mach1 at sea level is roughly 761.5 mph which can vary slightly depending on atmospheric conditions and temperature. :)
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Terral
Posted: Sep 25 2007, 12:25 PM


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Hi Preston:

QUOTE
Preston >>  Terral, the Tomahawk cruise missile is not supersonic. It is subsonic and has a speed of about 550 mph. Also, the speed of sound/Mach1 at sea level is roughly 761.5 mph which can vary slightly depending on atmospheric conditions and temperature.


No. Tomahawk Missiles went supersonic a LONG time ago. You are citing DoD disinformation for some strange reason.

I just explained that to Slamin here:

(Sep 25 2007, 10:18 AM) >> http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...showtopic=16120

GL,

Terral
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SPreston
Posted: Sep 25 2007, 03:01 PM


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QUOTE (Terral)
Hi Preston:
QUOTE
Preston >>  Terral, the Tomahawk cruise missile is not supersonic. It is subsonic and has a speed of about 550 mph. Also, the speed of sound/Mach1 at sea level is roughly 761.5 mph which can vary slightly depending on atmospheric conditions and temperature.

No. Tomahawk Missiles went supersonic a LONG time ago. You are citing DoD disinformation for some strange reason.

I just explained that to Slamin here:

(Sep 25 2007, 10:18 AM) >> http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...showtopic=16120

GL,

Terral

I should have added officially supersonic and officially subsonic. I agree that they hide the real speeds and turning rates and overall missile range. :)
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honway
Posted: Sep 26 2007, 11:20 PM


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QUOTE (JackD @ Aug 16 2007, 07:14 PM)
QUOTE (dylan avery @ Feb 22 2007, 04:44 PM)
.

(Posted Image)


smoke question:

where does it appear that the smoke is originating from in this photo?

at a later point, there was a lot of oily black smoke from the trailer/generator.

however, at this point, it appears that the smoke is coming out from somewhere inside the Pentagon.

http://www.archive.org/details/cbs200109110912-0954

At 30:42 on the counter or 9:43:33 EDT, you can see the secondary explosion
in the archived footage from CBS.
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honway
Posted: Sep 26 2007, 11:28 PM


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This appears to be a photo of the 9:43 secondary explosion.

http://www.PhotoCrib.net/is.php?i=8888&img=explosion.jpg
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honway
Posted: Sep 26 2007, 11:49 PM


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QUOTE (honway @ Sep 27 2007, 04:28 AM)
This appears to be a photo of the 9:43 secondary explosion.

http://www.PhotoCrib.net/is.php?i=8888&img=explosion.jpg

So what was the source of this explosion 5 minutes after impact?

http://www.PhotoCrib.net/is.php?i=8888&img=explosion.jpg

The experts have explained how the plane completely disintegrated on impact,
so I think we can rule out the jet fuel as a source of the explosion.

Kerosene would not explode like that unless it was in a confined fuel tank, and since the fuel tanks along with the entire airplane disintegrated on impact, it was not jet fuel exploding inside the Pentagon five minutes after the impact.
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Terral
Posted: Sep 27 2007, 08:39 AM


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Hi Preston:

QUOTE
Preston >>  I should have added officially supersonic and officially subsonic. I agree that they hide the real speeds and turning rates and overall missile range.


I think you mean ‘unofficially supersonic’ and ‘officially subsonic.’ Even Wiki says "Modern cruise missiles normally travel at supersonic or at high subsonic speeds, are self-navigating, and fly in a non-ballistic very low altitude trajectory in order to avoid radar detection." ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruise_missile ). More information on the transitions between ‘subsonic, supersonic and hypersonic’ is described here:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/sys...itions/lcms.htm

The speeds are between Mach 4.0 and Mach 6+, because current missile technology had already ‘far’ exceeded Mach 1. In fact the Fasthawk program is a “Low Cost Missile System” funded to replace the ‘high cost’ Mach 4 missiles already in the DoD arsenal. The major hurdle in the late 1990’s had nothing to do with missile/rocket engine technology at all. The real problem was to address the massive heat buildup in a missile traveling supersonic speeds in the lower atmosphere. The technology developed in the Fasthawk program is the basis for developing the HyperStrike or HyStrike – High Speed Strike Missiles. These bad boys are wingless and maneuver using broken-joint technology and achieve speeds of Mach 8.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/sys...ns/hystrike.htm

QUOTE
The hypersonic weapon's immense destructive power results from kinetic energy. An object striking a target at Mach 8 will generate 64 times the force of an object of the same mass striking the target at Mach 1. This phenomenon makes hypersonic weapons well suited to attacking hardened or deeply buried targets such as command bunkers or biological-weapon storage facilities.

Aerothermic heating, caused by the friction of air passing the weapon body, is one area of intensive research. At Mach 4, as the hypersonic weapon passes through the lower atmosphere in the terminal phase of its flight, its surface reaches about 1200 degrees Fahrenheit. This level is within the tolerance range of new titanium and inconel materials. At Mach 6, however, the surface temperatures exceed 2800 F and at Mach 8 over 5600 F; skin materials, as well as internal temperature control, become a much larger issue.


The major problem facing the missile/rocket systems has been in dealing with the ‘heat’ and not the ‘engine’ technology at all. To limit 21st Century missile technology to a mere subsonic speeds in support of a 911Truth theory appears a bit shortsighted to me.

The DoD used the Decoy Flyover Plane to cover the 9:32 AM missile strike, that gave witnesses about one second to see any missile. Almost every eye was upon the massive Decoy Plane with engines roaring to cover the sound of the Tomahawk Missile taking the ‘south’ flight path across the Route 27 cloverleaf. The DoD failed to realize their supersonic missile would push a massive bow shockwave to snap off the 5 ‘breakaway’ light poles revealing their ‘south’ flight path location. This is why the Pentagon clocks stopped at 9:32 AM with the initial missile strike and why Engine 161 was already on the scene in time to have crewmen injured by the 9:37 AM single-engine jet attack. This explains why Lloyd the taxi driver ( http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=78448 ) saw the Decoy Flyover Plane at 9:32 AM, when one of the light poles hit is cab. Lloyd and his helper were in the process of removing the light pole from his vehicle when BAMMMM, here comes the single-engine jet at 9:37 AM. The ‘third explosion’ (9:32 AM, 9:37 AM and ‘now’ 9:43 AM) at 9:43-45 AM was the DoD’s attempt at bringing down the E-Ring roof as near 9:37 AM as possible. Note the CNN timeline says Flight 77 hit the Pentagon at 9:43 AM ( http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=78448 ). :0) Are you beginning to see a definite 9/11 “Inside Job” pattern of manipulating the timelines? I am seeing signs of evidence/witness tampering by the DoD on all sides of this investigation, which proves the 911Commision is either BLIND or also part of the cover up operation. After all, they did not have a horse in this race at the time of these events and the real 'inside job' bad guys are still at large . . .

GL,

Terral
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Terral
Posted: Sep 27 2007, 11:09 AM


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Hi Honway:

QUOTE
Honway >>  So what was the source of this explosion 5 minutes after impact? http://www.PhotoCrib.net/is.php?i=8888&img=explosion.jpg


The problem with this video evidence is the banner stands in the way of actually allowing us to see anything. I have worked for two hours in a vain attempt to prove your picture above was taken shortly after the 9:37AM single-engine jet attack. We have problems forcing the events of your picture into the 9:43 time slot, because Engine 161 and 331 were already on the scene by that time and clearly are not represented in your picture. Firemen from Engine 161 were injured at the 9:37 AM single-engine jet attack where they reported seeing the ‘plane’ on Page A-4 here ( http://www.arlingtonva.us/Departments/Fire...fter_report.pdf ). Engine 331 ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Ter...3/2attacks1.jpg ) was the next truck on the scene ( http://www.public-action.com/911/rescue/nfpa.html ), but their testimony is conveniently excluded from the Arlington County After-Action Report. Therefore, if your picture ( here too at bottom http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/pent1/lawndamage.html ) shows the 9:43 AM ‘third’ explosion, then where are the fire trucks?

Remember Engine 331 is a ‘foam truck’ that made the transition over to ‘water’ ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Ter...-DSC_0433-1.jpg ) to be photographed during ‘both’ operations between 9:40 AM and the 9:57 (not) collapse. The photographic evidence does not give truck 331 the required ‘time’ to show up ‘after’ 9:43 AM ‘and’ knock down the fire with foam ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Terral03/lawn0.jpg *) AND have this 'standing around time*' AND make the transition to water AND fight the fire 'again' in less than 13 minutes (9:44 – 9:57). I would love to see video footage of the 9:43 explosion taken facing the impact hole between column lines 13 and 15 (still looking).

QUOTE
Honway >>  The experts have explained how the plane completely disintegrated on impact, so I think we can rule out the jet fuel as a source of the explosion.


Pack your little 9:37 AM attack plane ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD0qpbwHCYI , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=schV0rKCRwA ) with tnt and you have all the makings of a good explosion. Remember the idea was to crash the plane at ground level between Column Lines 8 and 14 ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Ter...tsidedamage.jpg = note missing columns) to take out the columns and bring the E-Ring roof down. The DoD was trying to simulate a 100-Ton Jetliner crash/explosion and bring the roof down in support of a ‘man-made’ Flight 77 Cover Story Hoax. Therefore, the single-engine jet was loaded down with incendiary devices to bring down the roof and put on a big show.

QUOTE
Honway >>  Kerosene would not explode like that unless it was in a confined fuel tank, and since the fuel tanks along with the entire airplane disintegrated on impact, it was not jet fuel exploding inside the Pentagon five minutes after the impact.


We agree. The DoD failed in the 9:37AM attempt to bring the E-Ring roof down, so they continued evacuation drills and kept setting demolition charges until the E-Ring roof was finally brought down later that morning. Everyone says the roof came down at 9:57 or 10:10 or 10:15, but all of those times must be LIES. The Arlington County After-Action Report makes all of those times very much impossible:

QUOTE
Page A-15 >>  During the first 24 hours, it was necessary to evacuate the Pentagon on four separate occasions because of the risk of structural collapse or the threat of additional terrorist attacks. It is difficult to measure the full impact of repeated building evacuations, but it was clearly negative and significant. Each time an evacuation was ordered, firefighters interrupted operations, abandoned equipment, shut off hoses, and ran several hundred yards to protected areas. From there, they had to watch as flames reclaimed the parts of the Pentagon they had just evacuated.


The firemen were ordered evacuate and ‘interrupt operations’ and ‘abandon equipment’ and ‘shut off hoses’ on four occasions when ordered by their superiors. We have video evidence that firemen are fighting the fire ‘during’ the roof collapse. Right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC_j1OsSVmo

Stop this video at 00:26 and you will see a fireman standing in the center of the frame with a group holding down the fire hose over by the Live9 logo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-_PKPUJqD8

The same evidence appears here at frame 00:04. The very first evacuation was ordered when?

http://www.arlingtonva.us/Departments/Fire...fter_report.pdf

QUOTE
Page 200. Appendix 1 Page 1-1:

9:55 a.m. Captain Gibbs evacuates impact area [same area in our pictures]
9:57 a.m. Structural collapse in impact area . . . [no firemen should be in area + 43 minutes pass]
10:38 a.m. Chief Schwartz sounds the all-clear, ending the evacuation [firemen can return]


If the firemen and everyone else are hustling and bustling through this impact area at the time of collapse, then was that ‘before’ the 9:55 AM evacuation order or ‘after’ 10:38 AM “all clear” was given? Another problem with the evidence is highlighted the Michael Kelly Channel 9 interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD0qpbwHCYI

Again, you can clearly see “61” (station number) on the red engine and “331” on the yellow foam engine. This is a ‘live interview’ and the time of the small plane crash is “20 minutes ago.” When we add 20 minutes to 9:37, we are already beyond the first evacuation time from the After Action Report. Stop the video at 00:24 and look at the size of the shadows at 10:00 AM, then compare that to the shadows of the guy running around in the Collapse video above ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Ter.../NoFight2-6.jpg ). Then tell me these two videos were shot within just minutes of the same time. :0) Your massive 9:43-9:45 AM explosion ‘must’ have been witnessed by Engines 161 and 331 that set up operations directly in front of the impact hole. And yet, Engine 161 is mentioned only once in the Arlington County After-Action Report and Engine 331 is not mentioned once at all. This error riddled report connects one explosion to 9:38 AM on Page 26 (A-4) with the only reference to Engine 161 (besides the picture reference on Page 27= A-5) where crewmen were injured. The next mention of an ‘explosion’ appears shortly afterward (Page 28 = A-6):

QUOTE
"Supervisory Special Agent (SSA) Jim Rice, the NCRS leader, was at the FBI WFO Command Center on the telephone with Mr. Larry Cirutti of the Military District of Washington (MDW) at the Pentagon when a monitored District of Columbia police radio transmission reported an explosion at the Pentagon. Mr. Cirutti told SSA Rice a helicopter must have “slid off the helipad” into the building."


Why the firemen writing this Report ignored the testimony of Engine 161 and Engine 331 is a mystery, because they had boots on the ground directly in front of the impact hole. Even though we have evidence of many secondary explosions at the Pentagon . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WefPzgxvfS4

. . . the next mention of an ‘explosion’ is on Page 89 of this Report with merely a reference to the 9:38 AM event. The same is true for the next mention of any ‘explosion’ on Page 104 and Page 162. These are the ‘only’ references to ‘explosions’ in the entire Report. :0) We hear ‘many’ explosions during this two minute interview, because the DoD is desperately doing everything to bring the cotton picking E-Ring Roof DOWN!!!! :0)

The DoD has obviously micromanaged the content of the Arlington County After-Action Report that appears to omit a literal mountain of important information vital to our 911Truth investigation. The E-Ring roof did not collapse at 10:15, or this video footage running through that period would have shown us the roof collapsing. This means the ‘time stamp’ evidence from the Channel 9 News people is also BOGUS. The demolition supervisor running the Pentagon Demolition Job was probably taken out back and executed for doing such a pitiful job. :0)

GL,

Terral
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honway
Posted: Sep 28 2007, 08:03 AM


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QUOTE (Terral @ Sep 27 2007, 04:09 PM)
Watch the video very carefully and watch the time and the E-Ring wall in the background. When the time says 10:15, the E-Ring roof is still standing.

This camera was not in a position to record the collapse at the Pentagon.
However, the information concerning the explosions is significant.

The Pentagon collapsed at 10:15. There are a great many questions that need answering concerning the Pentagon. The time of the collapse has been answered.
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honway
Posted: Sep 28 2007, 08:17 AM


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QUOTE (Terral @ Sep 27 2007, 04:09 PM)
Firemen from Engine 161 were injured at the 9:37 AM single-engine jet attack where they reported seeing the ‘plane’ on Page A-4 here

It is not clear from your post that you understand that the Fort Meyer Fire Department
and Foam 161 were stationed at the heliport. They lived/worked there when on duty.
The Fort Meyer Fire Department and Engine 161 did not respond from a different location to an event at the Pentagon. They were already at the Pentagon before anything occurred because that was where they worked.
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honway
Posted: Sep 28 2007, 08:59 AM


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http://www.archive.org/details/cbs200109110912-0954
At 9:52:51 (40:00 on the counter) Dave Statter reports the Arlington Fire Department is on the scene and putting foam on the fire.

It appears the fire fighters arrived after this photo was taken at 9:43.




http://www.PhotoCrib.net/is.php?i=8888&img=explosion.jpg(Posted Image)
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honway
Posted: Sep 28 2007, 09:04 AM


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Actually, the explosion below occurred at 9:43,instead of 9:45, based on the time stamped videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ_g1buWhAA
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honway
Posted: Sep 28 2007, 09:15 AM


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Here is a photo of Foam 161. It would not have been in a position to appear in the photo of the 9:43 explosion,pictured at the link below.


http://www.PhotoCrib.net/is.php?i=8888&img=explosion.jpg

(Posted Image)
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honway
Posted: Sep 28 2007, 09:53 AM


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QUOTE
The Arlington County After-Action Report makes all of those times very much impossible:


Hi Terral,



http://www.archive.org/details/cbs200109110954-1036

This video documents the first evacuation for the fire and rescue efforts at 10:17.(23:10
on the counter)

Clearly the times in the After Action Report are incorrect and cannot be used to determine a time line of events.
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Terral
Posted: Sep 28 2007, 04:19 PM


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Hi Honway:

QUOTE
Honway >>  It is not clear from your post that you understand that the Fort Meyer Fire Department and Engine 161 were stationed at the heliport. They lived/worked there when on duty. The Fort Meyer Fire Department and Engine 161 did not respond from a different location to an event at the Pentagon. They were already at the Pentagon before anything occurred because that was where they worked.


No sir. I understand that Foam 161 is stationed at the Pentagon ( http://arlingtonfirejournal.blogspot.com/2...t-pentagon.html near bottom of page). That is made clear in the ACAAR ("Captain Dennis Gilroy and his team were already on station at the Pentagon when Flight #77 slammed into it, just beyond the heliport." Page 26, A-4). Rescue Engine 161 arrived at the Pentagon at 9:41 AM ( http://www.pentagonresearch.com/fireresponse.html ), even if the ACAAR never mentions them. The point is made in the ACAAR:

QUOTE
ACAAR >>  Firefighters Mark Skipper and Alan Wallace were outside the vehicle at impact and received burns and lacerations. Recovering from the initial shock, they began helping victims climb out of the Pentagon’s first floor windows.


If the plane has yet to strike the Pentagon, then why connect the two firefighters to the vehicle at all? My reading is these firefighters were ‘outside the vehicle’ doing something besides having a smoke break. Every fireman at every firehouse is ‘outside the vehicle,’ so why is this Foam Truck even out of the garage? The report does not mention Mark Skipper and Alan Wallace sliding back up the pole to get dressed for a firefight, but says “Recovering from the initial shock, they began helping victims climb out of the Pentagon’s first floor windows.” I know, I know. This seems like I am making something out of nothing. My problem is in reconciling this story with what is going on out on Route 27 with Lloyd and his poles references above in this thread.

QUOTE
Lloyd, 69, began the morning of September 11, 2001 like most days, driving his taxi cab. A passenger in Rosslyn told him what had happened at the World Trade Center so he turned on his radio and headed home. As he approached the Navy Annex, he saw a PLANE flying dangerously low overhead. Simultaneously, the plane struck a light pole and the pole came crashing down onto the front of Lloyd’s taxi cab, destroying the windshield in front of his eyes. Glass was everywhere as he tried to stop the car. Another car stopped and the driver helped move the heavy pole off Lloyd’s car. [time is passing] As they were moving the pole, they heard a BIG BOOM [9:37AM attack plane] and turned to see AN EXPLOSION [injuring firefighters]. The light pole fell on Lloyd and he struggled to get up from underneath, wondering what had happened.


Steve McGraw corroborates Lloyd’s story ( http://www.geocities.com/someguyyoudontknow33/witnesses.htm ) that nobody ran out and knocked down any light poles, before someone starts ganging up on poor old Lloyd. :0) My problem is that Lloyd sees the big 9:32 AM Decoy Flyover plane AND the light poles are knocked down at the same time. Minutes pass and Lloyd and his helper are moving the pole around (9:32 to 9:37) and THEN here comes the 9:37 AM plane that injured the Foam 161 firemen. Therefore, the poles snapping off cannot be attributed to the attack plane on the North of Citgo Flight Path. We already saw the firemen were ‘outside the vehicle.’ Okay, so where is their report on seeing five light poles flying in the air? Pole #5 is about 425 feet from where Foam 161 was backed into the E-Ring wall and whatever brought the poles down made some kind of commotion ‘before’ Lloyd and his partner heard the BIG BOOM to see the 9:37 AM explosion. My thinking thus far has been that Foam 161 was out of the garage and these firemen were dressed to fight a fire, because they were reacting to the same 9:32 AM event that has Lloyd out there wrestling with a light pole. The details are excluded from these accounts, because the entire Arlington County After-Action Report is a fraud with more errors and omissions that you can shake a stick at.

My next problem involves the evidence that whatever struck E-Ring Column Line 14 came from the ‘south’ and on the same flight path as these same light poles.

http://www.pentagonresearch.com/lamps.html (see pic)

When we draw a straight line down the middle of those poles through the 18-feet diameter entry hole . . .

(Posted Image)

. . . we find the 8-12-feet diameter exit hole in the rear C-Ring wall ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Ter...agon-hole-l.jpg ). Not only that, but we even have a rectangular depressed area in the D-Ring concrete slab ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Terral03/columns.jpg = Slab deflected upward in orange) where the tumbling nose section skipped like a stone on the water along the way. I cannot reconcile this kind of damage on this trajectory heading from the attack plane using the North of Citgo Flight Path at 9:37 AM, because that attack run was made on more of a 90-degree head-on angle. I have a difficult time believing the Foam 161 crew was outside the building - and outside their truck - and did not see the light pole incident - and did not see whatever did all this E-Ring wall damage that could NOT have been done by the 9:37 AM smaller plane attack. Now, stand with me in AE Drive at 9:32 AM looking at the 45-degree angle through the C-Ring exit hole, through the E-Ring Entry hole and out the straight line through the center of the five light poles to the outside of the Route 27 cloverleaf, and tell me what could possibly travel along that line and do this damage. :0) Remember that your list of possible candidates must be able to take down these poles . . .

(Posted Image)

. . . without even leaving on dent anywhere (bow shockwave). Note the lens is broken right here on the scene where the thing fell onto the asphalt. We must come up with something that leaves very little debris, because the engine found in the Pentagon was from the 9:37 AM attack plane that injured our firemen. I believe the ACAAR has deliberately omitted Foam 161 testimony about the light poles and the original missile attack from the record to make everyone believe the ‘first’ attack took place at 9:37 AM. The Report says the crew was 'out of their truck,' but does not say why they were even out of the building. Foam 161 was not only dressed to fight a fire before the 9:37 AM attack plane made impact, they were out of the truck making preparations to put out the small fire limited to only the immediate Column 14 Entry Hole location. The only other plausible story is these firemen were merely taking a break outside the building and simply did not notice the light poles flying around or the explosion against the E-Ring wall, which I find highly unlikely. Thus far, the missile thesis is the only explanation that answers all these questions without creating a myriad of contradictions.

BTW, what is your story on what took down the 5 light poles. :0)

Terral
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Terral
Posted: Sep 28 2007, 04:42 PM


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Hi Honway:

QUOTE
Honway >>  This camera was not in a position to record the collapse at the Pentagon. However, the information concerning the explosions is significant.


I went back and reviewed the video data and realized you are 100 percent correct. This is excellent ‘explosion’ footage but the angle is wrong to draw conclusions about the E-Ring roof. My apologies. Thank you very much. I have already edited my comments. I am wondering if we have Live9 News reports taken near the 10:10 to 10:15 time revealing the sounds of these massive explosions.

QUOTE
Honway >>  The Pentagon collapsed at 10:15. There are a great many questions that need answering concerning the Pentagon. The time of the collapse has been answered.


I have watched your video and I have to agree the E-Ring roof collapsed at 10:15 AM. This is difficult to accept but the evidence certainly appears to agree 100 percent with you. Thanks a bunch,

Terral
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honway
Posted: Sep 28 2007, 05:23 PM


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QUOTE
they heard a BIG BOOM [9:37AM attack plane]


I disagree. I suspect the big boom was the 9:43

explosion.


(Posted Image)


IMO,the top image below is the 9:43 explosion

(Posted Image)

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Terral
Posted: Oct 17 2007, 11:30 AM


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Hi Honway:

Now we are beginning to get down to the 911Truth for this Pentagon case where the Official DoD Cover Story does NOT even begin to match the evidence. I wrote:

QUOTE
Terral Original >>  Okay, so where is their report on seeing five light poles flying in the air? Pole #5 is about 425 feet from where Foam 161 was backed into the E-Ring wall and whatever brought the poles down made some kind of commotion ‘before’ Lloyd and his partner heard the BIG BOOM to see the 9:37 AM explosion.

Honway’s Reply >>  I disagree. I suspect the big boom was the 9:43 explosion.


We definitely disagree. The Light Pole incident kicked off this series of events with the appearance of the Large 9:31:39 AM Decoy Flyover Plane that cast the large shadow caught by the Citgo Station for Security Camera #7.

(Posted Image)

The shadow appears at exactly 9:31:39 AM, when we allow for system running exactly 10 minutes fast. This marks the exact time the Navy Clock stopped inside the Pentagon ( http://www.pentagonresearch.com/images/312.jpg ) with the Helipad clock showing a 9:32 AM time. We have a literal mountain of evidence on your thread ( http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...showtopic=16133 = Post #2) proving beyond all doubt the ‘first’ explosion took place just before 9:32 AM. You are suggesting that Lloyd and his helper wrassled with Pole #1 for 11 minutes, before the next “Big Boom” ( http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=78448 ) in Lloyd’s account. No sir. I have read many accounts of this story and there is NO WAY over 10 minutes passed from the first explosion creating the ‘inside-the-building fires’ ( http://blog.lege.net/content/Seven_Hours_in_September.pdf ) and the second “Big Boom” explosion in his testimony. The fact is that he Liberty Post story includes a ‘third’ explosion:

QUOTE
Police started to arrive on the scene and forced Lloyde to move. They urged the bystanders to leave the area in case there was another explosion. Lloyde was forced to abandon his car in the middle of the street to begin the long walk home.


Now we have the original 9:31:39 AM explosion connected to the ‘start’ of Lloyd’s Pole 1 adventures with the second “Big Boom” taking place at 9:36:27 AM to stop this clock ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Ter...tAttackTime.jpg ) deeper inside the Pentagon. THEN we have a series of ‘explosions’ running from 9:42 AM ( http://whatreallyhappened.com/911timeline.html ) to your 9:43 AM ( http://www.loosechange911.com/img/explosion.jpg ) explosion to many explosions between 9:58 AM ( http://whatreallyhappened.com/911timeline.html ) through 10:12 AM and 10:15 AM ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WefPzgxvfS4 ), when the DoD finally dropped the E-Ring Roof ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC_j1OsSVmo ) by Controlled Demolition.

How do we know for certain Lloyd’s “Big Boom” definitely took place at 9:36:27 AM just five minutes after the original 9:31:39 AM missile strike? Your 9:43 AM explosion ( http://www.loosechange911.com/img/explosion.jpg ) is coming from the E-Ring entry hole at the Impact Area location and from a ‘single source.’ That is why you see a single plume of fire like from the mouth of a fire-breathing dragon. Lloyd got out of his cab the first time to see ONLY “inside-the-building fires” with black smoke rising up and to the right of the small hole. Terry Cohen was sitting in a meeting inside one of the construction trailers and was at the Entry Hole location 'in minutes' ( http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=5751351276150910098 ) and reported seeing ". . . just smoke . . . You could not see anything, but just smoke . . . ". She reports to have been on the scene right outside the entry hole in "two seconds." She reports people outside the Pentagon seeing a "Big Airplane," because that was the "Decoy Jet" that flew 'over' the Pentagon running diversion for the 9:31:39 AM Missile Strike. Terri then reports a 'second explosion," which is Lloyd's “Big Boom” just five minutes later transformed the entire Heliport area into this . . .

Too big >> http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/2.jpg

. . . raging inferno seeing the small hole smoke-fire transformed into a 300-feet wide inferno. Look down into the lower left-hand corner of that large picture and tell me Lloyd is looking at ‘inside-the-building fires’ in this 9:36:27 AM to 9:41 AM picture! We know right off the bat your assertion above is false from a reading of the Arlington County After Action Report:

http://www.arlingtonva.us/Departments/Fire...fter_report.pdf

QUOTE
Page 26 >> ACFD Truck 105 reached the scene first, followed shortly by fire and medical units from several Arlington County stations.

Page 200 Timeline >>  9:41 a.m. ACFD Truck 105 arrives at the Pentagon


A careful examination of the Geoffmetcalf picture above shows no firemen at all on the scene and Lloyd standing in the picture ‘after’ the “Big Boom.”

The Public Action Report ( http://www.public-action.com/911/rescue/nfpa.html ) supporting article ( http://www.public-action.com/911/rescue/nfpa-article/ ) places Captain Defina and Rescue Engine 335 and Foam Unit 331 at the Pentagon “ two to three minutes later at the Pentagon's south parking lot” from 0938 AM or 9:38 AM. Captain Defina reports seeing “Truck 105 on the far north end,” which places all these firemen and trucks on the scene between 9:40 and 9:42 AM. Carol Valentine the President of Public Action Incorporated writes,

http://www.public-action.com/911/rescue/nfpa.html

QUOTE
Carol Valentine >>  Do the math.  The Reagan National team must have arrived at the Pentagon at approximately 9:40 or 9:41 a.m.  If they extinguished the bulk of the fire in seven minutes, the "bulk of the fire" was extinguished at approximately 9:47 a.m. or 9:48 a.m.


Since Rescue Engine 161 and Foam Unit 331 are positioned in front of the E-Ring Impact area ‘before’ 9:43 AM, then obviously Lloyd’s ‘Big Boom’ explosion takes place ‘before’ any firemen are even in the above picture. Alan Wallace and Mark Skipper ( http://web.telia.com/~u43109230/flight77/texts/Wallace.txt ) are injured, suffering from hearing loss, and taking shelter under the vehicles at the time of the above picture ( http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/2.jpg ), as they were injured during the original 9:31:39 AM decoy/missile strike to only come out from the massive fire invading their space from this 9:36:27 AM A-3 Jet “Big Boom” attack.

The evidence says the Pentagon was attacked for the first time at 9:31:39 AM in a Missile Strike that created only small fires and a lot of smoke.

http://www.chron.com/content/news/photos/0...nce/photo6.html

QUOTE
Houston Chronicle:

9:30 a.m.: The south side of the Pentagon burns after it took a direct, devastating hit from American Airlines Flight 77 Tuesday morning, Sept. 11, 2001, in Arlington, Va.


Look at their picture carefully to realize there are only ‘inside-the-building fires’ and Foam 161 is not even on fire. The FAA Report says the Pentagon was attacked at 9:32 AM:

The FAA’s timeline document "Executive Summary−Chronology of a Multiple Hijacking Crisis−−September 11, 2001" reads:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB165/faa5.pdf

QUOTE
0932 ATC AEA reports aircraft crashes into west side of Pentagon.”


Alan Wallace and Mark Skipper just made tracks going north to hide under their vehicles (I would be running too). Lloyd is standing out there in the southbound lane of Washington Blvd with the light pole stuck in his windshield ‘before’ the 9:36:27 AM “Big Boom.” At this point most of the witnesses inside the Pentagon believe a ‘truck bomb’ was parked outside and exploded, when really this Missile ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Terral03/pentani.gif ) came whooshing in to strike CL 14 to murder all the accountants, bookkeepers and budget analysts ( http://archive.southcoasttoday.com/daily/1...01/a02wn018.htm ) possible . Lloyd’s “Big Boom” happens just five minutes later ‘BEFORE’ the other fire trucks show up.

Your 9:43 AM explosion is just one of MANY "explosions" that spanned over a 45 minute period. This fact points to the obvious omissions in the ACAAR that ‘never’ uses the term “explosions” even one time in 215 pages. In fact, the ACAAR only uses the term “explosion” singularly six times and 'only' in direct connection to a 9:38 AM explosion, as if NONE of these other explosions even happened.

Anyone connected to publishing this ACAAR has tons of explaining to do . . .

GL,

Terral
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Slamin
Posted: Oct 17 2007, 05:58 PM


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Posts: 157
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It's a sorry day when Terral has to start listing people on his ignore list - must be afraid of a fair debate on the subject.
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JackD
Posted: Oct 17 2007, 07:05 PM


Advanced Member


Group: Members
Posts: 301
Member No.: 1,724
Joined: 23-January 07



note the several independant sources of smoke.

lawn (dark, inky, black)

E ring

inside E ring (both to north and south)

Hmm.

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