Pentacon Releases Trailer

How did EVERYBODY get fooled?

IF there was a missile/bomb/flyover, anytjhing other than Flt 77 hitting the Pentagon, how did NO ONE see the flyover? After the explosion, EVERY PERSON within earshot would have looked toward the Pentagon...from 360 degrees around it.

How can thousands of people that would have looked that way, from EVERY conceivable angle, not seen flt 77 go somewhere else?

THAT, my friend, is impossible. Therefore your story is impossible.

Yet you say your handful of witnesses that place it north of Citgo make Flt 77 hitting the Pentagon impossible.

Gee, which impossibility is more likely to actually be accurate???

Every one was fooled due to the military precision of the operation and because of what had just transpired in new york.

Planes fly over the pentagon all day long every day because it is right next to reagan national airport.

I never said that nobody saw the plane fly over.

I bet a lot of people did.

They were simply told it was a different plane and pointed to all the news reports of other planes even one that "shadowed" the 757 and "veered off" within 3 to 5 seconds after the explosion.

The plane flew on the north of the station.

The testimony is conclusive and you will be forced to admit this or argue that all 4 witnesses are lying or insane.

No problem at all. I always enjoy civil debates amongst people with similar and yet different beliefs.

Right now I don't think anyone can positively say one way or another because the plane filmed has never been identified just like the plane which caused the evacuation of the Cleveland Center in regards to UA93 has never been identified. I do believe that footage was acquired shortly before impact as the plane passed over Arlington Cemetary.

You can only speculate in regards to the first question.

I don't think it's making data fit. It's merely speculation on my end. I would rather make the statement that the unidentified plane was _________ in hopes that some sort of evidence comes forward to prove what the plane was one way or another although I do believe the white plane has already been identified. But that doesn't make it the same plane that the secret service was pointing up in the sky at either.

I just don't believe that. I call that the Alex Jones' Pentagon theory. That there sitting on this definitive proof that AA77 did in fact hit the Pentagon they're just saving it for the day the Truth Movement explodes to put an end to it. They could have released it a long time ago and it would have nipped this whole movement in the bud.

Had human error played a part in the animation don't you think the NTSB would have explained that during one of the many phone calls regarding the data? That's rather easy for them to do. They knew the importance of what was being asked, they're not incompetent. They could have very easily have had that answer within the day and simply called back and said what the corrections in fact were that needed to be made. So to me that's a proof.

You're absolutely right. But the people who are holding positions that handle this type of stuff aren't driving home into the ghetto and buying a $20 rock on the way.

That's where we'll just have to respectfully agree to disagree. I've noticed throughout history with my government that repeatedly time and time again I've had to hear incompetence everytime there is a major event.

My whole thing is I know alot of people have given these guys shit because they made some premature statements very early on in it's production but let's give them a chance and judge them on it once we see it. There's already a website up that claims to have 'debunked' it and yet no one has even seen the film. I don't know Lyte, I admit that but I have spoken many times with Merc and I don't believe the man has any greedy intentions. That is from getting to know him personally through many conversations. I have had quite a few discussions with people in this movement and have found myself humoring quite a few til the conversation ended and choosing not to speak with them ever again. Merc is not one of those people. I think we should all give them a chance and when it's out then we'll debate about it.

I too oppose the 'case closed' statements. Although reliable credible eyewitness testimony is very damning in our society, there still needs to be physical evidence to support it in some manner. However I am not going to pass judgement on anything prematurely one way or another. And as of this time I do believe the NTSB animation and the csv decifering to be accurate of what was taken off of AA77.

Thank you! It's enjoyable having peaceful disagreements amongst friends. All the best!


Peace~
D

TC, thanks again for the reply, you have provoked my thoughts, Sir.

"I just don't believe that. I call that the Alex Jones' Pentagon theory. That there sitting on this definitive proof that AA77 did in fact hit the Pentagon they're just saving it for the day the Truth Movement explodes to put an end to it. They could have released it a long time ago and it would have nipped this whole movement in the bud."

My feelings on this are that we are indeed being led somewhere, simply because as a magician I know this is how I would do it because I know that would work.
The bigger the pimple you squeeze the greater the effect on your face will be.
I can't help but feel like we are being led to a total destruction of an alternative view via humiliation and ridicule. The civil war is the other option if they help too many people believe their government is against them.
It would be hard to fill those camps unless a sizeable proportion of the public either agreed or asked them to do it.
It would also be hard to keep their power and position if this truth movement and general distrust of the gov. persists and grows. This is why I think they have ramped up the police state, they know the revolt is growing because they are feeding it.
It is hard for me to see how this situation can heal itself without either us getting bored and moving onto something else (not going to happen) or a large amount of violence.
I am assuming they will not offer themselves for justice.
The criminals have to pay or we have to make them, is that not the nature of man or am i judging all by the British spirit?

This though is all me making stuff up, it just feels right to me though I have no evidence at all, just me chewing the cud and I am likely to be right as wrong.

I can not argue with the rest of your post, I obviously can see that your way of waiting and seeing before you decide your view on this movie is the correct way to do things and I am being quick with my rebukes. Childishly emotive even.
I just understand people and these people in my honest opinion are not in this for you, I or this movement.
If I had information that could help set the world free at no point would I require a mechanism on my website to collect money but that is just me.
I realise that statement could be taken badly by the people who host this forum but that was neither my intention nor would I place them in the same situation.
I have never heard Dylan claim he had solved any case on such shoddy evidence, nor have I seen him behave like I have seen with these other two groups.
As a result, even though I far from agree with ALL of LC you don't find me lambasting him of his movie, that is he has my respect even when I think he is wrong.

Last but not least, sorry man, I can't half rattle on huh :)
Happy times and peace to you and yours also, TC.

BaB

Hey BaB, I'm all for dissenting viewpoints. Hell, I consider Russell Pickering one of my best allies. And we know where some people stand on him.

Also, I'm all for intellectual debate and criticism. We know the attack points in the 2nd Edition, and we'll be rectifying those points in the Final Cut.

I'd post last night's show with Kevin Barrett, because we discussed alot of this, but sadly the archives are defunct at the moment...

You get the point. :D

Hey BaB, I'm all for dissenting viewpoints. Hell, I consider Russell Pickering one of my best allies. And we know where some people stand on him.

Also, I'm all for intellectual debate and criticism. We know the attack points in the 2nd Edition, and we'll be rectifying those points in the Final Cut.

I'd post last night's show with Kevin Barrett, because we discussed alot of this, but sadly the archives are defunct at the moment...

You get the point. :D

If you don't mind me asking, what is the view of LC as far as the Pentagon concerned? Don't wanna be annoying or anything, i was just wondering where your new research has led you.

The flyover theory really does make me think of the Pentagon in a new way. But then again I have the missile theory and the 757 theory which also have good points.

"You get the point."

I do :)

Thanks for taking it in the spirit it was intended Dylan.

You are amazing to say the least.

So you are discarding the FDR data? It indicates the aircraft had a straight flight path for around a mile and a half prior to the building.

"Smooth bank"???? Do you realize a plane going anywhere near 500 mph and turning at that radius is not "smooth"? How many yards is it from the Citgo to the Pentagon? What is the degree of bank required?

You have 3 witness who were under a canopy with a different version of the flight path than the majority of other witnesses, and just that single part of their testimony is what you accept and deem more truthful and accurate than every other testimony?? Including the fact that NONE of them saw or even believe the plane flew over the Pentagon?

Why didn't Lagasse go out from under the canopy towards the North? What makes his statement true now in light of the blatant contradictions and well documented (one recorded) statements he made earlier.

Can you please show us in the Citgo video the actions of the witness to collaborate his story? How fast did he run to the mound? In the video it appears he runs into the store? Does anything stand from his first interview?

How come everybody went out the South door? Even the manager walked right past the north door to go out the south door. Has the Citgo video been altered by the government?

Will ANYTHING in 3 dimensional reality correspond to the small segment of the statements of three witnesses under a canopy that you choose to define as absolute truth in the face of literally everything else?

"Military precision"? Missing the intended mechanical damage path is precise? It looks like they just whipped in there confused and did high speed banks helter skelter until the pyrotechnics went off huh? Was the plane humanly piloted? Was it remote? If they had everything so coordinated with fake poles and torn down fences - how in the hell did the plane zig-zag all over and miss the mechanical damage path?

You will ignore ALL of reality, physics, human nature, FDR data, and other witnesses for a portion of a couple of statements? Why?

I swear you HAVE to be able to be somewhat objective here. Can't you step outside yourself far enough to see what you're doing?

When I watched you guys bending reality in person conjuring up black operations for everything that didn't agree with you - I saw where this was going. When your partner tipped over and the forums melted down - it was clear what the motives were. But I do have to admit your dissociation from reality has exceeded what I thought possible.

Now we have "brother" sites and two new films in the mix with no regard for reality or truthfulness.

Seriously consider that this manipulated departure from the other 98% of the evidence for self motivation may in fact be one of the greatest diversions of the real truth of what happened at the Pentagon. Ego is a blinding force - but spreading this as gospel and irrefutable instead of adding it to the body of evidence truthfully and honestly is .........

Please try and go back in your mind to months before when your partner was obsessed with a flyover prior to any of this. Remember then Lagasses was a liar with a script - look at the attacks and personal dispute that motivated you guys to "rule". Think about what you have had to overlook to make your big film debut. Then remember all of this for the future.

Are you embracing the FDR? Either way it is irreconcilable with the physical damage flight path.

But yes.....we believe the eyewitnesses over the government sequestered/supplied FDR that is rife with anomalies.

We didn't describe it as smooth.....Mike Walter did. Actually his word is "graceful" not smooth. Are you calling him a liar?

NONE of the other witnesses definitively put the plane on the south of the sation. ALL of these witnesses swear on their lives that it was on the north. You will be forced to call them all liars or insane because their testimony is so strong and is NOT directly contradicted by another witness in the entire investigative body of evicence.

Don't you think if I interviewed him I would have asked all of those questions? Well I would have. Now you just have to wait a couple days to see if I did.

After seeing his detailed testimony told from his own mouth on location and re-enacted for the camera you can determine whether or not you choose to call him a liar based on this horrible quality video with tons of static/interference etc. that was sequestered for 5 years (BY THE PEOPLE THAT EVEN YOU CLAIM TO BE THE PERPETRATORS) and then released a week or two after we first posted information about this account.

The manager told YOU that the employee saw the plane on the north. Was she lying? Did he lie to his manager about this? What would be his motive to lie to everyone about this seemingly irrelevant detail?

Did any of the people in the store see the plane? No. Maybe you should go there and interview them and ask them why they chose to go out the south door if you think this is so important.

Since they did not even see the plane I find this to be a completely irrelevant point.

Since you claim they are the perpetrators don't you think it would be prudent to be skeptical about data they sequester and release 5 years after the fact?

Now you are simply being antagonistic.

It was precise enough to fool people but not obviously not perfect. I would think that as a researcher into this that believes 9/11 was an inside job you would understand how there were many mistakes made and clues to find that implicate them. Or do you think it was the perfect crime?

We don't spout any unsupported conspiracy theories about what controlled the plane.

That's your line of approach.

Our claims are based 100% on the heavily corroborated eyewitness acccounts.

Because the testimony is so strong and so highly corroborated. There is not a single witness account that directly contradicts them by specifically putting the plane on the south of the station.

WHAT? "Conjuring" up black operations??? Do you or do you not believe 9/11 was an inside job?? Doesn't that make it a "black operation"? Yes we are trying to solve this and yes as investigators we MUST hypothesize. Please Russell, explain to me how and why you think this makes us disassociated with realty?

So out comes the poetic ridiculing ad hom dissertation that you always end with.

Can't you ever stick to the evidence?

You will be forced to call ALL of the witnesses liars or insane. Their testimony is so strong and so highly corroborated that no logical individual interested in the truth will be able to doubt it.

And my partner was 100% correct in doing so. EVERY single witness at the pentagon is a suspect.

Most were not complicit but of course some were.

Do you now suggest that there were NO planted witnesses at all? Does this really make any sense? In DC you agreed there were likely some. You said maybe about 10. At this point I believe that was a pretty accurate estimate on your part.

As researchers we need to scrutinize EVERY claim to try and weed out the truth from the lies.

Many witnesses aren't complicit or liars per se but simply embellish. This is human nature.

This is why it is important to hunt down the questionable accounts and ASK THEM IN PERSON WHAT THEY MEANT.

This is what investigators do and what we did. Sometimes initial beliefs are proven correct sometimes they are proven wrong.

You're just gonna have to wait and see. I believe everyone will walk away from the Pentagon chapter happy. It's the chapter that's been the second hardest to write...

How many of your "new" witnesses after the fact 5 years later are government employees? You bring up all these witnesses and government supplied data as suspect. WHY are your government witnesses to be trusted? Because you NEED them is why? Think man think. The rest of us are seeing this clearly.

How many of them made prior recorded statements that are now conflicting?

What makes these witnesses "perfect" and the others suspect?

You have got to be kidding about no other witnesses saying the plane was to the south? Who do you expect to believe this?

Do you believe the Citgo video to be altered - simple yes or no? What portions and what is your evidence it is?

Can you identify the Citgo witness in the video? Did he run into the store or out to the mound in less than 2 seconds to see the plane "rise up". Was the bridge mound in his way as so carefully detailed and explained in his first interview?

The only thing the FDR is in conflict with the mechanical damage path is the last recorded PRESSURE altitude. You should actually do research and understand what you say before you make claims.

Can I stick to the evidence? Can you explain who trimmed the tree next to pole one and scuffed the VDOT camera mast? Why did they carve a flap track on top of the generator? Did they use a white or gray plane but then plant parts with AA paint on them? Please..................

How are your accounts "heavily" corroborated? By 3 people in a pool of people who communicated to each other? By people under a canopy? By people who did not see the plane approach? By people who in the best case scenario could have only seen the aircraft on the other side of the canopy for less than 2 seconds tops? If they had "perfect" vantage points - why didn't they see a massive plane fly over the building?

Do you TRULY believe what it is your putting out and willing to influence people to believe?

I am not forced into any action. Eyewitness testimony is extremely inaccurate - especially 5 years AFTER an emotional event that they have heard all kinds of other data about in the mean time.

How do you deal with all of the contradictions in massive amounts of testimony? Why are your couple of selected sound bites true? Doesn't it bother you that you are even taking their total statement out of context? Do they know what you are up to even?

Can't you see you are being driven by a belief, ego, pride and revenge to capture a few words to prove your right with no regard for the big picture?

I have to admit I am confounded that you can honestly believe you have solved the Pentagon case with "evidence". Hand selected statements out of a total context given by eyewitnesses (some of whom have already directly contradicted themselves on record) is NOT evidence. How it is satisfying for anybody who would remotely refer to themselves as a researcher let alone willing to parade themselves as the master investigators who have solved the case is beyond my capacity.

I just hope you find a way to self correct.

It is not even close to what or how LC has done. You have NO interest in progressively learning, self correcting or growing into a new understanding as time goes. In fact, you are willing to create an entire alternate reality for yourselves to exist in. You HAVE to deny many of the known laws of the universe to portray yourselves as heroes. So when you try and draw comparisons - please stop and be honest. I hope you can see by now your actions and attitudes have alienated not only skeptics - but decent people seeking the truth.

You and your brothers are in a TOTALLY separate category.

Whatever Russell.

The fact that you have to so passionately attack us AND the witnesses BEFORE we even present this is very telling.

I'm going to finish the Smoking Gun version right now.

Your reaction to it will be very interesting that's for sure.

My reaction to it will be based fairly on reality. I don't know what you are expecting.

It will be the same as my reaction to Lagasse saying he was blown into his car when you can clearly see he wasn't.

It will be the same as my reaction to all the people who swear it gouged through the lawn.

It will be the same as my reaction to the individual who believes a helicoptor was hit on the pad.

It is EYEWITNESS testimony to be understood in the whole context of the event.

I have witnesses with footage of the area behind the Pentagon at the moment of impact that I have talked to in great detail. They had three cameras running. They SWEAR that nothing flew over the building. So who is right? The video shows that if your imaginary flyover happened the plane would have had to go significantly south. There were multiple people there watching. NOTHING flew over according to them.

What is the problem? Legal issues with the footage and the fact they want nothing to do with having their name thrown to kooks to be hounded. It shows exactly when the C130 comes in and it is not what you are saying. But can I get the footage and prove it? Nope. But I am sending them your "film" and hoping it will inspire them to release it.

Do you 100% and honestly believe that somebody was hired to climb up and trim this tree in the shape of an RB-211 engine right next to pole number one? Do you truly believe that a human being climbed up there and did this with full cognisance of what they were doing - participating in mass murder?

Then after this meticulous detail they accidentally brought a piece of equipment with sophisticated guidance and navigation cabibility in zig-zagging through the area at the wrong location? And NOBODY saw it fly over?

That they left 2 Pentagon Police officers and Citgo government employees run around and tell the truth about it 5 years later?

(Posted Image)

Russell,
Is the tree visible in the photo linked below?

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/1.jpg

Russell,


Is the tree in question visible in this photo at the address below?

http://www.photocrib.net/is.php?i=7999&img=first_pole.jpeg

It is worth noting that according to the 9/11 Commission this is the same
C-130 that first identified the wreckage of United 93.

The tree is visible in this one - yes.

(Posted Image)

The question is - who believes that they went to the nuance of trimming a tree and then brought a sophisticated aircraft through there entirely missing the flight path and then left 2 Pentagon police officers and government Citgo employees tell the real story 5 years later?

Please identify the Citgo employee in the Citgo video and then tell me what he does.