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 Loose Change - Final Cut, Your opinions about the film
Aidan 'Badmac' Monaghan
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 04:50 PM


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The inclusion of the hijacker info was great and will make the official version now seem more like the real conspiracy. What the hell were these Jihadi's doing getting drunk in bars?

Was there a reference during the wargame section to Feds hypothetically carrying out a takeover of a commercial aircraft during mid-flight during one wargame scenario?

The description of Hanjour's piloting inability and the ATC descriptions of AA 77 as a military plane was a great addition.

I wonder what Davin 'The Boy Wonder' Coburn over at Popular Mechanics will have to say about that section?

(Posted Image)

:o
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thehighwaymanq
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 04:53 PM


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QUOTE (Aidan 'Badmac' Monaghan @ Nov 11 2007, 05:50 PM)
Was there a reference during the wargame section to Feds hypothetically carrying a takeover of a commercial aircraft during mid-flight during one wargame scenario?


Yes there was. And i would love to see jumpin Jimmy Meigs response to FC.
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Reggie_perrin
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 04:58 PM


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QUOTE (Aidan 'Badmac' Monaghan @ Nov 11 2007, 09:50 PM)
The inclusion of the hijacker info was great and will make the official version now seem more like the real conspiracy. What the hell were these Jihadi's doing getting drunk in bars?


Yes, considering they attacked us because they hate our way of life and our "freedoms" seems such a strange way to spend your last hours on earth doesn't it ? of course you would have to believe that premise to find there activities prior to the attacks as strange, since they didn't attack us for our freedoms and way of life it become slightly less strange.
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bpaulg
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 05:00 PM


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Just finished watching, and I thought it was very well done. It is much better than Loose Change. There aren't any wild claims of cell phones not working, missle hitting pentagon, etc. It just lays out facts and leaves the viewer to draw his own conclusion. There are so many unaswered questions and this is the heart of the film IMO. Any one who truly wants to know what all happened would want answers to these questions.
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miragememories
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 05:10 PM


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I haven't seen LCFC yet but I do look forward to purchasing it and watching it.

As a documentary editor, I can certainly appreciate all the flak the creators are going to face for not including everyone's favorite bit of proof.

As a consequence of having to 'build a case', a documentary like LCFC consumes precious viewing time with each piece of evidence it presents.

Unlike many documentaries, where it's not necessary to develop a detailed explanation for why the events unfold, LCFC had the additional challenge of arguing an unpopular point of view, on top of revealing details of the story.

The nature of the many available forms of evidence supporting the argument is going to vary significantly, and it all impacts on the length of the finished product.

I'm sure that in it's raw state, LCFC might have been as long as 10 hours.

No doubt many painful decisions were made regarding the discarding of footage.

No doubt some of these decisions could have been better, but it's hard, if not impossible, to always make the best 'call' when you've been exposed over and over to huge volumes of good material.

Unfortunately, it's impossible to include everything and keep a documentary to a viewable length that will hold everyone's attention.

Hopefully the DVD will include EXTRAS that will attempt to address this problem?

If any documentary subject demanded EXTRAs, it has to be 9/11.

It will also guarantee more interest in the LCFC DVD and less in YouTube and Torrents.

MM
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Jamie
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 05:15 PM


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the only thing I was suprised about in it's omission was at least a passing reference to PNAC. Also wondered if squibs and flashes with perhaps a hangiong kinda "what are they?" question would have help bolster all the amazing explosions testimony. Having said that, don't want to trivialise this fine film by Mr Avery. He and his team obvioulsy poured a lot of passion: hard work and dedication into this and my god does it show!

my dad heard the narration it on the PC while he was shaving and says he wants to see it asap

what he said was: that is very damming!

job done

I hope it's true about a UK cinema release in some kind of fashion

that would be amazing!
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thehighwaymanq
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 05:16 PM


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QUOTE (Jamie @ Nov 11 2007, 06:15 PM)
my dad heard the narration it on the PC while he was shaving and says he wants to see it asap


Ha! My mom and I went to the screening in NY and she came in my room when I was watching and said, " I know that voice!"
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8bitagent
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 05:18 PM


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QUOTE (Reggie_perrin @ Nov 11 2007, 09:36 PM)
The Mujahdeen existed originally becuase the US brought them together to fight the Russians and others in other parts of the world, Al Qaeda now exists as an insurgant group who opposes US military precence on holy lands and the US's unflinching support of Israel throughout all there atrocities towards the palastinians, support of tyranny governments in the middle east, and genrally the US's foreign policy towards the whole of the middle east.

I believe perhaps the Bush admin and neo-cons thought that the blowback was bound to come sooner or later and decided to have it happen on there terms whilst they are in power.

uh huh, the "blowback" thing

Ok, why was the main funder of Osama and al Qaeda(Yassin al-Qadi) not just good friends with Cheney...but he and TOP al Qaeda funders PROTECTED from FBI investigations(like by FBI Robert Wright)

And further, why were al Qaeda technology corporations like al Qadi's Ptech
given full access and allowed to network with top high level government systems(NSA, CIA, FAA, etc) ? and this was all through 2001 as well.

You say "al Qaeda is opposed to the US millitary".

Let me tell you something.

If I was mayor of a town, it would be so easy to get someone to rile up a bunch of homeless people to attack my city.

The "terrorist" homeless guys would be filled with hate against me, and attack my city. Not KNOWING they were falling right into my trap.

Youre still thinking in Lihop vs Mihop terms. 9/11 is bigger than that.

*IF* protected intelligence assets are the masterminds of ALL these events,
and Im talking 7/7, WTC 1993, 9/11, USS Cole, 1998 African embassy bombing...just because brainwashed idiot terrorists were physically pushing the detonate button and "al Qaeda" puts their stamp of approval...

HOW is it "blowback"?

I can name the protected intelligence case provocatuers behind almost every main "al Qaeda" attack since the early 1990's. Not that hard when it even makes the backpage of newspapers.
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thehighwaymanq
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 05:19 PM


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QUOTE (8bitagent @ Nov 11 2007, 06:18 PM)
QUOTE (Reggie_perrin @ Nov 11 2007, 09:36 PM)
The Mujahdeen existed originally becuase the US brought them together to fight the Russians and others in other parts of the world, Al Qaeda now exists as an insurgant group who opposes US military precence on holy lands and the US's unflinching support of Israel throughout all there atrocities towards the palastinians, support of tyranny governments in the middle east, and genrally the US's foreign policy towards the whole of the middle east.

I believe perhaps the Bush admin and neo-cons thought that the blowback was bound to come sooner or later and decided to have it happen on there terms whilst they are in power.

uh huh, the "blowback" thing

Ok, why was the main funder of Osama and al Qaeda(Yassin al-Qadi) not just good friends with Cheney...but he and TOP al Qaeda funders PROTECTED from FBI investigations(like by FBI Robert Wright)

And further, why were al Qaeda technology corporations like al Qadi's Ptech
given full access and allowed to network with top high level government systems(NSA, CIA, FAA, etc) ? and this was all through 2001 as well.

You say "al Qaeda is opposed to the US millitary".

Let me tell you something.

If I was mayor of a town, it would be so easy to get someone to rile up a bunch of homeless people to attack my city.

The "terrorist" homeless guys would be filled with hate against me, and attack my city. Not KNOWING they were falling right into my trap.

Youre still thinking in Lihop vs Mihop terms. 9/11 is bigger than that.

*IF* protected intelligence assets are the masterminds of ALL these events,
and Im talking 7/7, WTC 1993, 9/11, USS Cole, 1998 African embassy bombing...just because brainwashed idiot terrorists were physically pushing the detonate button and "al Qaeda" puts their stamp of approval...

HOW is it "blowback"?

I can name the protected intelligence case provocatuers behind almost every main "al Qaeda" attack since the early 1990's. Not that hard when it even makes the backpage of newspapers.

My gosh 8bit, you fucking know everything!
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8bitagent
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 05:24 PM


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Im a filmmaker as well dabbling in political documentary styles, and just for the craft alone I have to really lookup to Final Cut.

My biggest disappointment was the lack of new interviews. I know some had to be cut because of threats, but still.

A 9/11 Truth film coming out that has very high level government official, whistleblower, etc interviews that will blow people's minds is a film called "ZERO".

check out whose in the film, its insane
http://www.zerofilm.it/IlFilm/LeFonti/tabi...US/Default.aspx

I sadly feel some of the concepts in LCFC might go over people's heads.
People might not fully appreciate what it means if the hijackers were living with FBI informants or being funded by Pakistani Intelligence.

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buddy
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 05:30 PM


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the link doesn't work. boo hoo

music is no good. wah wah

dylan's voice sucks. pee yoo

where's (insert name here)?

how come you didn't cover X?

how come Charlie Sheen didn't narrate?

I for one don't really care what all you yahoos think. I don't care about your technical problems. They'll be resolved in time. You won't get screwed out of your precious $7.

Good job Dylan, Jason, and everyone involved. I'm sure it's not perfect, but I am not looking for perfection in this. I am looking for a fight in the infowar.

PS, you yahoos, don't bother posting your little rebuttals to this. I don't care.
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8bitagent
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 05:30 PM


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[QUOTE=thehighwaymanq,Nov 11 2007, 10:19 PM] [QUOTE=8bitagent,Nov 11 2007, 06:18 PM]
My gosh 8bit, you fucking know everything! [/QUOTE]

Naw, tho I do know researchers with encyopledic knowlege of every nook and cranny of 9/11, they can spell out who really masterminded 9/11 and conduited it through gullible protected al Qaeda "hijackers" and what shell companies were used.

I just look at the small details. I see how American cigarette bootlegger groups in 2001 were funnelling money to al Qaeda operations and Israeli spies are always the warning signal that something bad is going to happen.

People need to know, that US government protected and used al Qaeda front companies are all over the 9/11 operation.

Infocom is one of them, they absorbed Holy Land Foundation.

Ptech absorbed CARE international which is the "MAK"(CIA-ISI-Saudi intelligence)
al Qaeda original group from Afghanistan.

The al Taqwa bank is whats used for a large amount of all Islamic terror funds, and
its was started by real life German Nazis.

Islamic terrorism always works hand in hand with Nazis, under the control of Western and Arab intelligence and banking institutions(BCCI, for instance)

You see, the "terrorists" might think they are doing it for Allah, or to avenge family members, whatever.

The masterminds are provocatuer assets used to rile up would be or gullible terrorists.

"Blowback" is a Palestinian strapping a bomb on and blowing themself up in a cafe.

Major islamic terrorism are almost always global networked operations aimed at causing a pretext of war, big brother, etc.
From the Phillipines to Spain to Indonesia to India to London..."Islamic terror" on a major scare are intelligence operations, almost always
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DataNetworks
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 05:32 PM


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Well think.... WHOS HYPE IS FINAL CUT NOT LIVING UP TO?

Oh yeah, their own.
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jacksbackjack
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 05:34 PM


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where's that kid my latte???
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Gideon524
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 05:36 PM


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Everybody's a critic.
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thehighwaymanq
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 05:38 PM


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QUOTE (8bitagent @ Nov 11 2007, 06:24 PM)
Im a filmmaker as well dabbling in political documentary styles, and just for the craft alone I have to really lookup to Final Cut.

My biggest disappointment was the lack of new interviews. I know some had to be cut because of threats, but still.

A 9/11 Truth film coming out that has very high level government official, whistleblower, etc interviews that will blow people's minds is a film called "ZERO".

check out whose in the film, its insane
http://www.zerofilm.it/IlFilm/LeFonti/tabi...US/Default.aspx

I sadly feel some of the concepts in LCFC might go over people's heads.
People might not fully appreciate what it means if the hijackers were living with FBI informants or being funded by Pakistani Intelligence.

Wow, that film is loaded with people. Looking foward to it, thanks a lot. I read a lot of your posts and i'm just blown away, I should learn from all the stuff you post about. Does anybody know when that film the Reflecting Pool is coming out? The drama/documentary about 9/11?
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thehighwaymanq
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 05:44 PM


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QUOTE (buddy @ Nov 11 2007, 06:30 PM)
I'm sure it's not perfect, but I am not looking for perfection in this.

I don't think it's possible to make a perfect doc. If 99% of the truther community loved the film, theres one percent who hated it because of some bullshit reasons. Sure, theres some stuff I didn't enjoy as much as some other stuff, but who cares. It's a good film and it's goin shake shit up!
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Reggie_perrin
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 05:52 PM


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QUOTE (8bitagent @ Nov 11 2007, 10:18 PM)
HOW is it "blowback"? 


So all those bombing campaigns by the US in Iraq during the 90's didn't piss people off ? how about the sanctions which killed 500k + Iraqi children, they didn't cause anger in the muslim world ? we could go back as far as the 53 over throw of Mossedeq, there are countless examples of US actions in the middle east which would cause REAL anger and feelings of recentment, they've been the victims of American terrorist activities just one example is the car bomb in beruit in 1985 which was aimed at a muslim cleric but which istead killed 80 innocent people leaving a mosque, it later came out that the CIA sponsored the group who carried out the attacks ( i know what your going to say).I'm not defending what they did but giving a reason WHY they did it, i'm also not saying there isnt anything being covered up about 9/11 either, clearly the BUsh admin are hiding omething, what we do not know, and neither do you, could it be for business reasons ? possible links to suadis could jepodise oil sales etc, doesn't mean there was a sinister conspiracy just that the people in the white house care more about there business intrests than they do about bringing all involved in 9/11 to justice.

Are muslims incapable of carrying out attacks by themselves ? because thats what you seem to say with every post you make.I mean it can't ALL be staged can it ?

And i don't mean to be rude but all that stuff about it being a satanic ritual is bollox.
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jacksbackjack
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 05:54 PM


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I don't make predictions, and I never will.
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thehighwaymanq
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 06:27 PM


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My Loose Change:Final Cut review:
_____________________________________________________
When I sat down in my chair on September 10th, 2007 at New World Stages in New York City to view the rough version of LC:FC, I was excited. I didn't know what to expect, new movie, new information, new evidence, new presentation. I watched the film and was ecstatic at the information being presented. I went home that night happy and confident in the film the LTW boys' developed. Fast foward to November 11, 2007 and the official film. It opens with the prolouge, a montage of footage from Ground Zero on September 11, 2006. The film procedes with the hijackers. It goes in-depth into who they were, where they trained, etc. It covered the Pentagon Able Danger program. It goes into the ISI funding. The war games are explained in a new way never seen before. With everything mapped out and everything cited, LC:FC gives you information that is unseen by the public eye. This starting part is where I am most proud of Loose Change. Even though I had absolutely nothing to do with the film and it's creation/development, I feel proud of Loose Change at this point. It truly shows how the documentary has grown up and matured. No more speculation, no more theory. I am young, 14 years of age, and since I've been on these forums I know that I've grown up a lot. The film continues to the Pentagon section which I think was approached in a very smart way. The stand down and Norman Minetta's testimony is highlighted, as the no planers and the planers sides are both looked into. It provides the viewer with many unanswered questions that you are forced to investigate. It doesn't make your mind up, you make your mind up. And that' something that I enjoy a lot about this new LC. From the Pentagon, the impacts/collapses of both Twin Towers is looked into. Was it controlled demolition or not? Experts Kevin Ryan, Steven Jones, and Gordon Ross are all interviewed and featured at this part. LC presents there case of CD using eye-witnesses testimony from firefighter John Schroeder and countless other witnesses featured in the news of that day, picture/video evidence of white smoke and molten metal, and the experts ideas. It goes over the speed of collapse and how it fell at nearly free fall speed. It depicts the lobby as blown out and destroyed and asks the question "how is jet fuel the culprit of this." Then, it goes into the air quality and has an excellant interview with John Feal. After the Twin Towers the Flight 93 chapter occurs. LC focuses on the shoot down theory. It provides excellant video quality evidence of the crater which. Shows evidence of the Indian Lake mayor talking about the miltary possibly tracking 93. Goes in-depth into past plane crashes and the large presence of wreckage, then compares that to flight 93's. It ends with an excellant animation of the possible shoot down theory. Next comes building 7. It's the best case for CD at wtc7 I've seen. It goes over everything: molten metal, demolition charges, pre-collapse news reports about collapse, expert testimony, and more. It also includes a nice animation regarding the tenets in WTC7. It ends with one of the best parts of the film, with Danny Jowenko talking about the collapse of the building. The next part goes into the 9/11 Commission and it's members and the anomolies of the report. LC touches on the wire tapping, ending of habeous corpus, WMD's, and the illegal lie that forced us into war. The film ends with Dylan Avery, the narrator, asking if any of that is possible withouth 9/11. A montage of footage from 9/10 at New World Stages, 9/11 at Ground Zero, and Remo Conscious performance at Rutgers Unitversity and more. In conclusion, I believe this is the best 9/11 Truth documentary out there. The music, the graphics/animations, narration, organization, content, and overall feel is mind-blowing. It has the perfect combination of evidence. I love this film, and look foward to mass producing and attempting to get this information out to the masses. I want to thank Dylan Avery, Jason Bermas, Korey Rowe, Alex Jones, David Ray Griffin, Tim Sparke, Ray McGovern, Cynthia Mckinney, Steven Jones, Kevin Ryan, the mayor of Indian Lake, John Feal, Gordon Ross, John Scroder, and everyone else involved in the film. From the bottom of my heart I want to thank LTW for all the work they've done the past couple years. You guys are truly my heroes, take care and keep up the good work. Thank you,

-Matty
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