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 Loose Change - Final Cut, Your opinions about the film
JointPlays
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 05:43 AM


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Ok i just finished the Movie.

Great Great stuff!!!

I was having major sound issues, but i hope others did not.

The volume between chapters could also jump very high. Or between segments when Dylan spoke, and the switch to an interview. I dont think that was normal.

I am looking forward to showing this to my entire family, friends, strangers, anyone basically. :)

Great Music overall. Did not like the music when looking at all the other air crash pictures. Sounded too "happy"

The best parts:

* air quality, and the entire "ripping apart the 9/11 commission"

* John Feal part is gold. He is such a great hero.

* Building 7 - just great

* Cornering Thomas Kean - amazing!

* Greatest graphics ever!

I just loved it all ok!

5 STARS

*****
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Phil Jayhan
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 05:50 AM


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QUOTE (JointPlays @ Nov 11 2007, 10:43 AM)
Ok i just finished the Movie.

Great Great stuff!!!

I was having major sound issues, but i hope others did not.

The volume between chapters could also jump very high. Or between segments when Dylan spoke, and the switch to an interview. I dont think that was normal.

I am looking forward to showing this to my entire family, friends, strangers, anyone basically.  :)

Great Music overall. Did not like the music when looking at all the other air crash pictures. Sounded too "happy"

The best chapters were on the air quality, and the entire "ripping apart the 9/11 commission"

And the parts wih John Feal is gold. He is such a great hero.

I loved it!

5 STARS

*****

Excellent Smithers, excellent!

(Posted Image)

cheers-
phil :)

http://www.letsrollforums.com/forums/index.php
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JointPlays
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 05:56 AM


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QUOTE (Phil Jayhan @ Nov 11 2007, 10:50 AM)
Excellent Smithers, excellent!

(Posted Image)

cheers-
phil :)

I could keep going, i am all hyped and edited my first post 3 or 4 times.

I wanna see it again right now, but i have to wait for friends to come over...

Screw it - im just gonna buy it again.

:D

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8bitagent
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 07:32 AM


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A bit tired to write a full review(its 4am here)

Ive seen, goodness...possibly every single 9/11 documentary on the planet, including pro government version ones.

Final Cut is definately the best one that mixes both the "Press For Truth"/"Everyones Gotta Learn Sometime" stuff and the physical anomaly stuff.
I can understand why people wonder why its called "Final Cut" as its a 100% new film.

The most amazing thing about Final Cut is ALL the hardly ever seen and rare news clips. Wow. Seriously, its amazing all this was on mainstream news and right down the memory hole.

Anyways, here's my short list of the pros and cons.

Pros:

An absolute cosmic slam dunk beyond imagination on the NORAD war games.
Unfortunately, they didnt use the clips from the NORAD Tapes or Vanity Fair article
("those are damn injects, I know it!" or "this has to be a war game")
and they didnt mention that Flight 93 continued as a hijacked blip on FAA/NORAD radar
(and ATC said it was as if the hijackers knew when to turn off and on the transponders)

...the War Games section is just mind blowing. The cgi map exhaustively going over
WHERE and what all the war games exercises...and how Bush just happened to visit both Barksdale and Offut AFB on 9/11 was intriguing. The exploration of Amalgam Vigil was intense.

I was VERY impressed with the section on the hijacker's day of 9/11. While they dont mention the fact Atta damn near misses his plane getting into a near fight at Logan...
this is the first time a documentary has really layed out the significance of the dufflebags and found hijacker passport stuff.

I feel the documentary coulda spent at least a minute explaining how
FBI informants were hosting the hijackers all across the country, not just San Diego. Also, they dont mention that the hijackers under FBI informant Abdusattar Sheikh
were recieving lots of money from Saudi elites(Princess Haifa for instance)

they do go into the strange possibility of the hijackers recieving millitary training which is important
No mention of the Saudi involvement, however Im glad it went into the importance of the ISI. Press For Truth goes into how ISI officials knew the towers would be rigged as far back as 1999, but this did a good job with the money transfers.

SLAM DUNK on Able Danger. Absolutely amazing.

*The Pentagon:

BIG PROPS on the section explaining WHO was on board Flight 77. Truthers need to know who was on Flight 77 and WHY its so important. Most of AA77 were directly connected to millitary, defense corporations, etc.

I feel the Citizens Investigation Team(Pentacon) folk's stuff should have been used or referenced as a third theory.

They believe that given many witnesses saw a white plane and not a AA77, that its possible a white plane flew to the right of the Citgo(contrary to the official story) and flew over the pentagon at the same time explosions go off at the pentagon, ejecting AA77 planted parts from nearby trailers. A very intriguing idea.

Regardless the graphic showing the 80 monitors with only 4 released tapes was powerful, as was the "circle" movement of the alleged plane.

IN FACT, one of the BEST parts of LCFC is when Dylan is narrating the cgi AA77 going out of its way to hit that reinforced wedge, as if to say Hani went out of his way to NOT hit the top brass. I think this is VERY crucial and LCFC nailed it

*The Towers:

Good history lesson, and the cgi of the REAL interior of the WTC(not the Nova bs)
was great.

The white smoke rising from the bottom is a very good point. The cascading possible thermite. The PATHway subway being rocked by bombs. The fireman account of what happened was classic.

I think Final Cut should have explained how the sprinklers were sabotaged, either from maintence workers(Memphis TN terror group) or from basement explosions.

Also, the documentary makes a point about Rudy and the radios, but doesnt explain how the fault radios was a Motorola/Guilani scam

Also, the choice to have the OEM bunker in WTC7 was a Silverstein/Rudy scam.

Not shown are the clips where officials say explosive filled vans were timed to go off when the planes hit. But I think it establishes that bombs were timed to go off


*Shanksville: Great interview with the mayor. That rare footage of the 6 mile debris field was great. Short section, but I see it leans toward the shootdown theory

*WTC7: interesting seeing that rare WTC7 lobby footage. Also Dylan doesnt shy away from showing the damaged back. The WTC7 cgi graphics were good.

SLAM DUNK on the air quality 1st reponder section. Forgot to mention tho, that they were denied emergency medical care in some cases.

the CONS:

The music. Way too much fun silly funky jazz when the music should have been more serious, cinematic. Second Edition to me was much better music/mood wise for the score.

April Gallop and Barry Jennings interviews nixed, the two exclusive interviews that seemed really exciting and would have took the documentary to the next level in my view

No real investigation into Shanksville besides the mayor. I am aware of truthers who have gotten Shanksville people to talk on camera about UAV's, plane parts on their roof, debris field in New Baltimore, and all sorts of anomalies. I wanna see a documentary on these people and what has been uncovered.

Cgi illustrations that had to be nixed, that were seen in the teaser(like the planes entering the towers)

I feel that truthers should talk about how the argument is not always fire, but the fact the planes sheered thru some of the structural integrity.
Debunkers are not doing very well when they stick with the fire story, and not the planes themselves slicing thru that could disrupt the top halves.
Regardless, Im definately a believer of tower sabotage

I was disappointed that in 2 years more whistleblowers/mindblowing interviews were able to be secured. While its cool seeing Kevin Ryan, Ray Mcgovern, Mckinney and
Steven Jones...it woulda been interesting seeing some startling new interviews with high level whistleblowers(as ZERO is doing, the big budget Itallian 9/11 truth film)

Im sure I could think of more, but overall it was amazing to see little spoken about stuff represented with full on CGI graphics making a strong point.
I loved the use of the "interruption" tv sounds that cued in right after certain points.

The POINT is this film is going to be a watershed in waking up truthers to so many points they havent thought about, while showing a whole new audience just HOW FAR the government went to covering things up.
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Terrorcell
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 11:23 AM


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QUOTE (8bitagent @ Nov 11 2007, 12:32 PM)
No real investigation into Shanksville besides the mayor. I am aware of truthers who have gotten Shanksville people to talk on camera about UAV's, plane parts on their roof, debris field in New Baltimore, and all sorts of anomalies. I wanna see a documentary on these people and what has been uncovered.

I promise you that you will see one in the near future. ;)

Now I haven't had a chance to see FC yet but I'm assuming from your comments Dylan didn't include his interview with the New Baltimore resident?
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ross11988
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 12:00 PM


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For those of you that saw the test screening in NYC on 9/11/07. How does Final Cut compare to it?
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thehighwaymanq
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 12:57 PM


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I'm re-watching it and will post my review.

Post all thoughts/likes/dislikes/reviews for Loose Change:Final Cut here:

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thehighwaymanq
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 12:59 PM


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I'm sure most people in the movement know about FC, but can somebody put this on blogger?
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Scientia
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 01:50 PM


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I had to download the torrent (i'm going to donate) and it ended 1h15m into the movie, the flash version is poor and has many artifacts. This does not do all of the hard work put into it justice. The content however as far as I saw, was great. I like the effort to minimize conjecture and maintain factual basis for most statements. This will make the task of debunking arduous and allow fact checkers and truth squads to further corroborate the film.

I hope to get a DVD version as soon as possible, I am not going to pursue the remaining time in the film as I was unable to fully appreciate it in the current low resolution flash format. I hope the idea to distribute it initially in this way will be reconsidered. I want to thank the creators for all of their hard work despite these initial complications.
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Barcoded
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 02:17 PM


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QUOTE
I had to download the torrent (i'm going to donate) and it ended 1h15m into the movie, the flash version is poor and has many artifacts.


I'm gonna donate as soon as I finish watching the torrented copy. Are you saying that there is some missing from it?
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8bitagent
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 03:34 PM


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QUOTE (Terrorcell @ Nov 11 2007, 04:23 PM)
QUOTE (8bitagent @ Nov 11 2007, 12:32 PM)
No real investigation into Shanksville besides the mayor. I am aware of truthers who have gotten Shanksville people to talk on camera about UAV's, plane parts on their roof, debris field in New Baltimore, and all sorts of anomalies. I wanna see a documentary on these people and what has been uncovered.

I promise you that you will see one in the near future. ;)

Now I haven't had a chance to see FC yet but I'm assuming from your comments Dylan didn't include his interview with the New Baltimore resident?

Well I understand LTW were pressed for time and had to make a lot of cuts to keept the 2 hours 10 minute length.

Id love to see you(CIT guys right?) make a mind blowing documentary that provides the best interviews/animation/evidence of both the Pentagon and Shanksville.
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thehighwaymanq
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 03:36 PM


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QUOTE (ross11988 @ Nov 11 2007, 01:00 PM)
For those of you that saw the test screening in NYC on 9/11/07. How does Final Cut compare to it?

It's better, much better. They did leave out a lot of stuff that I enjoyed, but I guess that'll be on the dvd.
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Scientia
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 03:58 PM


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The torrent that I downloaded was just over 600mb and ended at 1hour15min....mid sentence. It definitely appeared to be cut short.
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Mantis2K
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 03:59 PM


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I'm not too impressed with Loose Change... It's difficult to keep up with the first half and understand exactly what points the LC crew are trying to put across. I find Final Cut to be more like a vague Michael Moore documentary. There is no detailed analysis of the evidence and smoking guns, except the near-freefall speed and molten metal, which aren't explained in enough detail anyhow. Regarding the Pentagon, it's briefly mentioned about the lack of wing/tail section damage, but isn't shown visually. A photo is shown of building 5 burnt out, but no footage of it burning! The main thing that pisses me off is the lack of any slow motion analysis re: demo charge flashes (like in "911 Explosive Reality"). Dylan himself once produced a piece of footage showing demo charge flashes coming from building 7, but I see this never made it to the final cut.

I'm tempted to make a spreadsheet comparing all 911 documentaries with the number of observations pointed out regarding anomolies. I think the ultimate documentary will be the one that can cover all points--exhaustively. For example:
*Flash before planes hit - 911 Ripple Effect
*Pre-collapse explosions - 911 Mysteries, 911 Eyewitness
*Nose-cone exiting other side of building - "short 22 mins laser weapons documentary" (forgot the title)
*Demo charge flashes - 911 Explosive Reality
*WTC1+2 Vs. WTC7 (Explode, Top first VS. Implode, Bottom First) - no documentary compares them in, say, split-screen mode!
This is just a few examples that come to mind. I could list over 1000, and they all need to be pointed out in a documentary, even if we don't know what caused them. Loose Change does "mention" a couple of these points, but doesn't show them "visually". Smoke rising from the base is inadequate evidence to point out possible pre-collapse explosions. The state of the lobby needs to be shown along with the eyewitnesses.
What does Loose Change point out that's new regarding the WTC collapses? They do seem to point out a lot of new stuff regarding the hijackers. The released Pentagon tapes are put into context. However, I'm not really impressed overall. Things are just not pointed out properly. Conservation of momentum needed to be explained and shown "visually". Drop one third of a building on top of 2 thirds; what happens? Show how one of the WTC towers collapses first above the impact then follows below the impact... Explosion in one tower as 2nd plane hits the other tower? Oh, come on man... The Loose Change team could have done much better...
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zombie bill hicks
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 04:00 PM


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QUOTE (thehighwaymanq @ Nov 11 2007, 01:59 PM)
I'm sure most people in the movement know about FC, but can somebody put this on blogger?

Im sure it already has been, but they don't update much over the weekends.
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thehighwaymanq
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 04:13 PM


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Yummie.

(Posted Image)

Haha,

QUOTE
It's fucking riveting! -Kevin Smith
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8bitagent
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 04:24 PM


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QUOTE (Mantis2K @ Nov 11 2007, 08:59 PM)
I'm not too impressed with Loose Change... It's difficult to keep up with the first half and understand exactly what points the LC crew are trying to put across.

The Loose Change crew with the first half is saying the obvious:

the hijackers, while genuinely "al Qaeda" operatives, were fully protected/funded/helped/guided/babysat by rogue Western and Arab powers who are now wearing the white hats of the "good guys"(CIA, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc)

Now when I say "al Qaeda", truthers need to realize that Islamic terror groups are only real because they are the mercenary easy to incite proxy tools of the global elites.

At the nexus point of Islamic terror are Western and Arab elites with corporate interests.


I agree Loose Change doesnt go into too much technical stuff on some angles, but I think its more to let the viewer decide.

The cgi graphics with Dylan's narration is perfect. Im very glad he decided to narrate.
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Aidan 'Badmac' Monaghan
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 04:31 PM


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It was very methodical ... checked off one good point after another throughout.

And the abundance of network video is a big plus.

McGoverns last comment about Cheney says it all.

There was nothing in the movie that could be described as vulnerable or that could come back to haunt us, so to speak. The movie didn't overextend itself, which makes it virtually invulnerable to counter-attacks. It really can't be described as a 'conspiracy' film because no real theories were advanced. It simply cites the more dubious aspects of the official story and media coverage without trying to fill in the blanks.

I was a little surprised that more wasn't said about Jones' thermite evidence or his beleif that thermite was used (perhaps I simply missed any such reference). This may have benefitted the molten metal portion by putting it more into perspective.

I may be wrong, but was there a reference to no WTC steel being recovered for analysis? (Or maybe it was WTC 7 steel.) FEMA did obtain sulfidated steel from 7 and 1 or 2. (Thermate?)

I think this guy from UA 175 may have been described as Hanjour. (Not positive though.)

(Posted Image)

Mohand Alshehri

(Kind of does look like him though.)

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Reggie_perrin
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 04:36 PM


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QUOTE (8bitagent @ Nov 11 2007, 09:24 PM)
QUOTE (Mantis2K @ Nov 11 2007, 08:59 PM)
I'm not too impressed with Loose Change... It's difficult to keep up with the first half and understand exactly what points the LC crew are trying to put across.

The Loose Change crew with the first half is saying the obvious:

the hijackers, while genuinely "al Qaeda" operatives, were fully protected/funded/helped/guided/babysat by rogue Western and Arab powers who are now wearing the white hats of the "good guys"(CIA, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc)

Now when I say "al Qaeda", truthers need to realize that Islamic terror groups are only real because they are the mercenary easy to incite proxy tools of the global elites.

At the nexus point of Islamic terror are Western and Arab elites with corporate interests.


I agree Loose Change doesnt go into too much technical stuff on some angles, but I think its more to let the viewer decide.

The cgi graphics with Dylan's narration is perfect. Im very glad he decided to narrate.

The elites must be in bed with the neo-cons then ? other wise why bother staging 9/11 if the Bush admin wern't going to react the way they did ? the premise of 9/11 was to go to war in Afghanistan/Iraq, how else did the elite gain from 9/11 ?

The Mujahdeen existed originally becuase the US brought them together to fight the Russians and others in other parts of the world, Al Qaeda now exists as an insurgant group who opposes US military precence on holy lands and the US's unflinching support of Israel throughout all there atrocities towards the palastinians, support of tyranny governments in the middle east, and genrally the US's foreign policy towards the whole of the middle east.

I believe perhaps the Bush admin and neo-cons thought that the blowback was bound to come sooner or later and decided to have it happen on there terms whilst they are in power.
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Mantis2K
Posted: Nov 11 2007, 04:37 PM


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I need to re-watch the first half... Maybe the vague approach will allow people to build up a picture of the hijackers in their mind, but it's not clear on each thing pointed out about them.

QUOTE
I agree Loose Change doesnt go into too much technical stuff on some angles, but I think its more to let the viewer decide.

It's not the lack of technical stuff--it doesn't have to be technical. The viewer can't decide over anything unless they are shown the actual evidence, ie. slowed down footages of the demo charge flashes, the flashes before the planes hit. It could be missile, laser weapon, trick of light? Let the viewer decide, but atleast point it out in the first place! The flash was censored in UK DVD release of 911! What does this mean? Government want to hide evidence of missile or DVD disitributor trying to discourage discussion about 911 conspiracies? Who knows? But point it out, damn it...

One thing Loose Change does show exhaustively--and was the first documentary to do so I believe--is footages of eyewitnesses who heard explosions. You can see that LC has got together almost EVERY piece of footage showing eyewitnesses to explosions. Don't you think this is great? So you can see the exhaustive approach is the best way. But then again, Michael Moore's vague approach seems to get more attention. Zeitgeist is about the worst documentary I've seen on 9/11, but everyone seems to be watching it (The part on Jesus is very good!)
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