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Title: Search For Wtc 7 South Upper And Lower Lobby Photo
Description: Where are the WTC7 lobby area photos


Ferric Oxide - May 17, 2007 05:02 PM (GMT)
This subject matter is worthy of a separate thread as in my opinion, it is one of the keys to determining what went on in and around the south lobby of building 7 prior to and after the collapses of both WTC towers.

Here is what we have so far:

user posted image

Willie Cirone;
user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

Now, debunkers might suggest that the photographer did not turn to his right to snap a photo of the WTC 7 lobby area "close-up" because there was too much debris, or that it was too dangerous, or something like that. However, this bit of denial is not plausible as according to NIST, the conditions in the lobby area of building 7were as follows:

First: Debris damage to Building 7 after the collapse of WTC 2:
NIST:
1-Some south face glass broken at lower floors

2-Dust covered lobby areas at floors 1 and 3

3-No fires observed

Second: Debris damage to Building 7 after the collapse of WTC 1:
NIST:
1-Heavy debris on Vesey Street and WTC 7 Promenade

2-No heavy debris observed in lobby area, white dust coating

3-SW corner damage-floors 8 to 18

4-South face damage between two exterior columns-roof level, down to 5 to 10 floors, extent not known

5-South face damage:
a-middle 1/4-1/3 width south face, 10th
b-large debris hole near center around 14th
c-1/4 width south face, above 5th floor, atrium glass intact
d-8th/9th floor from inside, visible south wall gone with more damage to west, 2 elevator cars dislodged into elevator lobby

NIST PDF which states that there was "no heavy debris in lobby area" [of building 7]

Again, I challenge ANYONE to find ONE photo of the Building 7 lower and/or upper lobby areas (reasonably close-up) and video from throughout the day on September 11, 2001.

user posted image

Above: the Vesey Street Bridge is clearly in view, as is the east corner of building 7. (We are facing WTC 5 and 6. Note: that I believe that there are several unpublished photos of the lobby area of building 7 that we must locate and post immediately.)

Below is yet another photo of the south side of building 7 seen as the smoke from WTC 5 and 6 rising up to the building.

user posted image

Here is another Vesey street photo. Building 7 is not in view. The photo shows Building 5 and 6 on the left with the pedestrian bridge in view. Based on other photos, it seems that the North Tower has already collapsed. Still I have not found a picture of the lobby are of building 7 throughout the day. Remember that NIST stated that after the collapse of the north tower that there was "heavy debris on Vesey Street and WTC 7 Promenade," which we see in many photos, but that there was "no heavy debris observed in lobby area," which we can't see as we haven't located photos from the lobby are of building 7 taken by Cirone, Spak or anyone.

user posted image

xBIGGSx - May 18, 2007 03:40 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Ferric Oxide @ May 17 2007, 12:02 PM)
user posted image

I find this picture interesting because it shows that only light debris (the huge cloud of smoke) reached just ONE side of WTC 7 yet the government claims that the fires in the building were started by falling debris from WTC 1. Did anybody see a flaming cloud of smoke? If there was fire in the debris then why would it not ignite Bankers Trust whose entire building was within the light debris zone?

Ferric Oxide - May 18, 2007 05:39 PM (GMT)
So are you telling me that there is not ONE---NOT ONE publically available photograph or video clip of the upper and/or lower lobby ares of building 7 from ANYTIME during the day of September 11, 2001.

---There was a temporary triage center in the lobby--Where are the photos?

---There was a major evacuation---Where are the photos?

---Willie Cirone was a mere few feet from the building lobby---Where are the photos?

---The CIA had the area scoured for documents after the collapse---Where are the photos?


THESE are the photos and video we need to truely find out what went on in and around building 7. These will quell any attempts at exercising "plausible denial." This is the key.


Remember, I am looking for ANY photos of that area after the WTC 1 strike, after the WTC 2 strike, after the WTC2 collapse, or after the WTC 1 collapse.

Ferric Oxide - May 18, 2007 08:32 PM (GMT)
A WTC 7 Division of a triage center was established at 9:30 am

FDNY
Where are the photos?

e^n - May 19, 2007 01:14 PM (GMT)
I wonder if anyone has filed a FOIA request for the WTC7 photos NIST holds. Their final report should be out soon but I am not sure if you can request them beforehand. I am sure you could specify specific pictures but it might cost a little more, i'd be willing to chip in $20. I think you'd need someone in the US to file it though (Brit!)

miragememories - May 20, 2007 07:37 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (e^n @ May 19 2007, 01:14 PM)
I wonder if anyone has filed a FOIA request for the WTC7 photos NIST holds. Their final report should be out soon but I am not sure if you can request them beforehand. I am sure you could specify specific pictures but it might cost a little more, i'd be willing to chip in $20. I think you'd need someone in the US to file it though (Brit!)

I've read repeatedly that NIST wants something in the order of $17,000 for their photo collection relating to 9/11.

MM

e^n - May 21, 2007 02:01 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (miragememories @ May 20 2007, 02:37 PM)
QUOTE (e^n @ May 19 2007, 01:14 PM)
I wonder if anyone has filed a FOIA request for the WTC7 photos NIST holds. Their final report should be out soon but I am not sure if you can request them beforehand. I am sure you could specify specific pictures but it might cost a little more, i'd be willing to chip in $20. I think you'd need someone in the US to file it though (Brit!)

I've read repeatedly that NIST wants something in the order of $17,000 for their photo collection relating to 9/11.

MM

I think that was for everything, still $17000 is nothing! I can contribute up to $100 of that easily and there are plenty enough people in the 'truther' community to collect that.

Has anyone set up any trustable way to donate towards this?

waterdancer - May 21, 2007 09:14 AM (GMT)
Video footage showing that area between the two collapses is available. Watch the ATF employee wave the cameraman away, walk under the promenade, triage area, etc.

NBC broadcast footage (15 min. mark or so) from that area and time of day at least once, the BBC footage of that area was broadcast a lot- the earliest time I'm aware of that footage being shown by the BBC was around 11:44. I doubt it was ever broadcast live, but it's still footage. Of course, we still don't have the key, which is footage or pics AFTER the north tower collapsed. Those are the money shots. ;)

This pic below is the closest I've seen to what you're looking for. Not much closer than the other Cirone pictures, but if you squint and use your imagination a bit, I think you can just make out some broken glass on the south face of WTC 7. of course with all the somewhat to extremely light reflective surfaces (including the south side of WTC 7, the bottom of the pedestrian bridge and the glassed in railing by the bent propeller) it's difficult to say exactly what's what.
user posted image
user posted image

miragememories - May 21, 2007 02:29 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (e^n @ May 21 2007, 02:01 AM)
QUOTE (miragememories @ May 20 2007, 02:37 PM)
QUOTE (e^n @ May 19 2007, 01:14 PM)
I wonder if anyone has filed a FOIA request for the WTC7 photos NIST holds. Their final report should be out soon but I am not sure if you can request them beforehand. I am sure you could specify specific pictures but it might cost a little more, i'd be willing to chip in $20. I think you'd need someone in the US to file it though (Brit!)

I've read repeatedly that NIST wants something in the order of $17,000 for their photo collection relating to 9/11.

MM

I think that was for everything, still $17000 is nothing! I can contribute up to $100 of that easily and there are plenty enough people in the 'truther' community to collect that.

Has anyone set up any trustable way to donate towards this?

I believe with that price comes a form of non-disclosure agreement.

It's not as simple as a group collecting the funds and then openly disseminating the images throughout the internet.

MM

e^n - May 21, 2007 03:11 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (miragememories @ May 21 2007, 09:29 AM)
I believe with that price comes a form of non-disclosure agreement.

It's not as simple as a group collecting the funds and then openly disseminating the images throughout the internet.

MM

The FOIA requests on NIST Review don't seem to have any NDA requirements but even so, as long as there's an independent person we both agree on to look at them we can get accurate assessments of damage amount etc.

peterabbit - May 23, 2007 06:44 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (miragememories @ May 20 2007, 02:37 PM)
QUOTE (e^n @ May 19 2007, 01:14 PM)
I wonder if anyone has filed a FOIA request for the WTC7 photos NIST holds. Their final report should be out soon but I am not sure if you can request them beforehand. I am sure you could specify specific pictures but it might cost a little more, i'd be willing to chip in $20. I think you'd need someone in the US to file it though (Brit!)

I've read repeatedly that NIST wants something in the order of $17,000 for their photo collection relating to 9/11.

MM

These photos are being withheld, because?

e^n - May 23, 2007 08:51 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (peterabbit @ May 23 2007, 01:44 AM)
These photos are being withheld, because?

Copyright?

miragememories - May 23, 2007 06:02 PM (GMT)
No doubt the FBI are holding back all the security cam videos from the Pentagon event because of the copyrite concerns as well...lol.

MM

peterabbit - May 23, 2007 08:58 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (e^n @ May 23 2007, 03:51 AM)
QUOTE (peterabbit @ May 23 2007, 01:44 AM)
These photos are being withheld, because?

Copyright?

Copyright photographic evidence? Riiight...

NIST does not have any authority to copyright images they do not own.

QUOTE (NIST @ Dec. 9, 2002)
The team is especially interested in WTC 7 and views from the south and west faces of the towers. Anyone wishing to provide NIST with documents, photos or other materials

e^n - May 23, 2007 10:02 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (peterabbit @ May 23 2007, 03:58 PM)
Copyright photographic evidence? Riiight...

NIST does not have any authority to copyright images they do not own.

Photographs belong to the person who takes them, because NIST can't claim copyright they can't distribute them as they see fit. It's entirely possible that $17k is the cost of the copyright from every person involved and processing fees.

Who knows, but i'm willing to put in plenty of cash to support getting them all released.

peterabbit - May 23, 2007 11:18 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (e^n @ May 23 2007, 05:02 PM)
It's entirely possible that $17k is the cost of the copyright from every person involved and processing fees.

And it's entirely possible 911 was an inside job.

;)

DoYouEverWonder - May 24, 2007 12:45 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (e^n @ May 23 2007, 05:02 PM)
QUOTE (peterabbit @ May 23 2007, 03:58 PM)
Copyright photographic evidence? Riiight...

NIST does not have any authority to copyright images they do not own.

Photographs belong to the person who takes them, because NIST can't claim copyright they can't distribute them as they see fit. It's entirely possible that $17k is the cost of the copyright from every person involved and processing fees.

Who knows, but i'm willing to put in plenty of cash to support getting them all released.

Not if the person was working for a government agency and it was his job to take pictures. NYPD has their own video unit that was at the WTC as soon as the attack started. Where are their pictures? Where are the hi res videos from the helicopters?

behind - May 24, 2007 01:52 AM (GMT)
According to Steven Jones in Revisiting 9/11/2001 --Applying the Scientific Method:

"The
NIST report on WTC7 is long overdue. NIST does have photos and videos of the collapse of WTC 7
which they have refused to release despite Freedom of Information Act requests. The excuse is that
while they are still studying this, they will not release the videos and photos of WTC 7. These videos
and photos were obtained mainly from the public at tax payer expense and I strongly suggest the public
should have a chance to look at all the data and we can study this ourselves, thank you." (p.65)

www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2007/150507JonesWTC911SciMethod.pdf (2.25 MB)

peterabbit - May 24, 2007 11:42 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (behind @ May 23 2007, 08:52 PM)
According to Steven Jones in Revisiting 9/11/2001 --Applying the Scientific Method:

"The
NIST report on WTC7 is long overdue. NIST does have photos and videos of the collapse of WTC 7
which they have refused to release despite Freedom of Information Act requests. The excuse is that
while they are still studying this, they will not release the videos and photos of WTC 7. These videos
and photos were obtained mainly from the public at tax payer expense and I strongly suggest the public
should have a chance to look at all the data and we can study this ourselves, thank you." (p.65)

www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2007/150507JonesWTC911SciMethod.pdf (2.25 MB)

Exactly!

chris sarns - May 27, 2007 12:46 AM (GMT)
On Feb. 6, i applied to NIST-FOIA for photographs and videos [near time of collapse] of the south east side of WTC 7 after the collapse of WTC 1.

On March 13, i got a reply saying i had been assigned to "all other requests"
which means the first 2 hours of search and duplication are free.
[no mention of copyright fees]

I requested an estimate and on May 16 i received a reply.

For $239.25 [estimate] i can have them with these conditions:

Charges will be assessed weather or not responsive documents are located and weather or not any of these documents are exempt from disclosure under FOIA.

Sounds like a catch 22 to me.

I called back and they told me that there were 25 photographs and 2 videos [with sound] just before and during the collapse.

No photographs or videos will be released to anyone until the 'investigation' is complete.

No firm date for when this will happen. [maybe June]

I must gamble my $239.25 within 30 days of May 16 or they will close my request and i will have to start over again.

BTW: The people at FOIA are friendly, helpful, and even apologetic about the rules.

When i told them that NIST published photos of every side and angle except the south east side, they understood my concern.

So, there are photographs of the south east side of WTC 7 but the government is using the 'investigation' as an excuse to withhold them from the public.

e^n - May 27, 2007 02:02 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (chris sarns @ May 26 2007, 07:46 PM)
For $239.25 [estimate] i can have them with these conditions:
...
No photographs or videos will be released to anyone until the 'investigation' is complete.

No firm date for when this will happen. [maybe June]

Personally I think we should wait for the final report if this is the case, but if you are intent on going ahead with it I will put in $50.

chris sarns - May 28, 2007 03:41 PM (GMT)
e^n

Thanx for the offer.

I don't feel right about taking money but after i send a check to NIST-FOIA you could buy some LC2e's and send them to me.

genghis6199 - May 28, 2007 03:57 PM (GMT)
i think it's funny how people think nist is gonna publish a report that actually examines wtc7 properly.

it would go like this....
we spent 2 years backing up the whole 19 arabs thing but wtc 7 was oddly brought down by demolition.......

chris sarns - May 28, 2007 08:16 PM (GMT)
No, no, no

It will read like this:

We have determined, by reexamining the videos of the collapse, that
WTC 7 looks like a Duck.
Upon further examination of the audio evidence from 2 of the 6,000 video clips we are withholding from the public, we have determined that the
WTC 7 collapse sounds like a Duck.
However, we are still trying to determine how we can determine weather or not
WTC 7 walked like a Duck.
Further study is needed.

e^n - May 29, 2007 01:14 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (genghis6199 @ May 28 2007, 10:57 AM)
i think it's funny how people think nist is gonna publish a report that actually examines wtc7 properly.

it would go like this....
we spent 2 years backing up the whole 19 arabs thing but wtc 7 was oddly brought down by demolition.......

Why would that be a problem for them? It's like saying "They're not going to investigate WTC 1 and 2 properly", but they did? Hell even their preliminary report contains some pretty reasonable speculation.

The very fact you are discounting it before it is even released is worrying.

miragememories - May 29, 2007 03:17 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (e^n @ May 29 2007, 01:14 AM)
QUOTE (genghis6199 @ May 28 2007, 10:57 AM)
i think it's funny how people think nist is gonna publish a report that actually examines wtc7 properly.

it would go like this....
we spent 2 years backing up the whole 19 arabs thing but wtc 7 was oddly brought down by demolition.......

Why would that be a problem for them? It's like saying "They're not going to investigate WTC 1 and 2 properly", but they did? Hell even their preliminary report contains some pretty reasonable speculation.

The very fact you are discounting it before it is even released is worrying.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, NIST will say "it must be time to redefine a duck."

Why would NIST have a problem with a controlled demolition finding for WTC7?

Are you really that naive e^n??

It's not just a matter of doing a scientific investigation, analyzing the results and presenting the conclusions. I mean it should be, and you seem to think that it is as simple as that.

Unfortunately, like it or not the whole process is effected by political considerations.

IF NIST in their Final WTC7 Collapse Report determine that the only viable causal explanation for the collapse of WTC7 was pre-planted controlled demolitions, it won't be a case of "well that's that, what do we work on tomorrow?"

That finding virtually rips open all the 9/11 political wounds.

How was it done?

Who did it?

Why did they do it?

If they planned a CD of WTC7 on 9/11 how can the high speed vertical collapses of WTC 1 & 2 possibly be a coincidence?

Did NIST investigate the collapses of WTC 1 & 2 properly?

A controlled demolition finding for WTC7 is a Pandora's Box and NIST administrators know it. It's the NIST administration and those who supervised the NIST investigations and determined what was important and was not that will find their neckties feeling awfully tight.

A few Notes about NIST and their delayed WTC7 Collapse Report;

NIST claims they did not have sufficient time to complete the report, because its staff was too small. They accepted $20,000,000.00 of tax payer money to to investigate WTC 1,2 & 7, yet 5 years after this horrific event of major ongoing consequence and importance, they have yet to complete it's final investigation because they chose to not hire more staff?

As an agency of the U.S. Commerce Dept., and hence an agency of the U.S. government, is there any doubt that if President Bush had asked Congress for an additional $10 million to expedite NIST's work, Congress would have approved it?

NIST can't use any of the three main claims it employed to explain the collapses of WTC 1 & 2.
- no airplane impact stripped fireproofing from steel
- no airplane explosion and jet fuel initiated very big fires
- no airplane impact severing and damaging sufficient columns to allow a 'falldown' collapse

NIST is stuck with debris damage from WTC1 and whatever they can argue re:fire damage.

NIST has to explain the total high speed collapse of a huge, modern, over-engineered for renovation, concrete and steel building. 47-storys, 24 core columns, 57 perimeter columns and covering a complete city block.

NIST has to explain the symmetry of the collapse. How did 81 columns manage to all fail at the same time?

NIST should, though they ignored it with WTC 1 & 2, explain the molten metal underneath WTC7.

NIST needs to account for all the eyewitness accounts of explosions, though again, NIST ignored similar reports of explosions with WTC 1 & 2.

NIST needs to discount expert testimony from Dutch demolition expert Danny Jowenko, Hugo Bachman & Jorg Schneider of the ETH Swiss Federal Institute of Technolgy in Zurich and Heikki Kurttila, an accident analyst for the Finnish National Satety Technology Authority.

NIST should explain the widespread and long duration foreknowlege of WTC7's collapse?

What is worrying is that people like yourself have bet your whole bankroll on NIST and after having done so, only pretend to listen to contrary opinions.

In your own words, you accept their preliminary report as pretty reasonable speculation. When experts far more qualified than yourself, give an educated, experienced opinion with which you disagree, your loyalty to NIST as an institution appears to blind you to the reality of NIST as a political entity, and you steadfastly cling to your faith in the NIST speculation of failing transfer trusses that miraculously made this all possible.

A wiser person would keep their mouth shut and hope that their NIST heroes would come up with a better explanation.

WTC7 is not called the "smoking gun" for nothing!

MM

e^n - May 29, 2007 05:59 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (miragememories)
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, NIST will say "it must be time to redefine a duck."
Why would NIST have a problem with a controlled demolition finding for WTC7?
Are you really that naive e^n??

You have yet to demonstrate they have ignored evidence, true scientists do not change conclusions based on politics and there's no evidence of manipulation of the reports .

QUOTE
IF NIST in their Final WTC7 Collapse Report determine that the only viable causal explanation for the collapse of WTC7 was pre-planted controlled demolitions, it won't be a case of "well that's that, what do we work on tomorrow?"

That finding virtually rips open all the 9/11 political wounds.

Yes, yes it does. I'm not denying the fact it would re-open a bunch of queries and I think that if they do determine controlled demolition they need to reinvestigate WTC1 and 2

The rest of your post is mostly valid

QUOTE
NIST needs to account for all the eyewitness accounts of explosions, though again, NIST ignored similar reports of explosions with WTC 1 & 2.

No they don't, not only is this impossible, it's pointless. Are you claiming that in a large scale office fire there would be no explosions other than planted ones?

QUOTE
NIST should explain the widespread and long duration foreknowlege of WTC7's collapse?

How is this not sufficiently explained already?

QUOTE
A wiser person would keep their mouth shut and hope that their NIST heroes would come up with a better explanation.

You insult me and claim I steadfastly claim to the NIST report yet this is simply because you have produced absolutely no evidence of any manipulation of inaccuracy. You complain about NIST regularly and misrepresent their report by literally replacing words you don't find appropriate yet you have yourself completely ignored a thorough analysis of your work.

It is you who refuses to accept arguments against your theory, I posted a comprehensive analysis of Kinetic Energy in response to your critique here, nearly a month later while ignoring my original reply you claim it again here and yet again fail to show me how I am wrong.

Stop claiming that I am somehow brainwashed or steadfast in my beliefs, your absolute inability to provide contradictory evidence and your ignoring of my criticisms indicates that you are the one without ability to change.

peterabbit - May 29, 2007 07:06 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (e^n @ May 28 2007, 08:14 PM)
QUOTE (genghis6199 @ May 28 2007, 10:57 AM)
i think it's funny how people think nist is gonna publish a report that actually examines wtc7 properly.

it would go like this....
we spent 2 years backing up the whole 19 arabs thing but wtc 7 was oddly brought down by demolition.......

Why would that be a problem for them? It's like saying "They're not going to investigate WTC 1 and 2 properly", but they did? Hell even their preliminary report contains some pretty reasonable speculation.

The very fact you are discounting it before it is even released is worrying.

Look, they're playing good cop bad cop now...

these two are disinfo partners, just watch how they play off eachother.

Ferric Oxide - June 6, 2007 03:54 PM (GMT)
Guiliani evacuated the building. I am certain there are photos and video of the evacuation, the triage center, and "others" entering and leaving the building. I can not stress enough that it is vitally important that we get these photos and video. It is the only way (aside from testing the steel and observing collapse videos) that we can see what went on by observing who went in and out of there during the day.




user posted image
Above: The intact Vesey Street bridge is seen from in front of the WTC 7 Lobby. Building 5 and 6 are on the right of the photographer.

Below:One can see the lower lobby entrance of the WTC 7 south side after the collapse of the towers in the condition stated in the NIST report.
"2-No heavy debris observed in lobby area, white dust coating."

user posted image
user posted image

Here is the reference video to help us pinpoint time and place:
Building 7 South Side Lower Lobby with view of Vesey Street Bridge

Note that the south lobby was a triage center at 9:30am. We now need photos and video of the UPPER SOUTH SIDE LOBBY from anytime during the day on 911, and go from there. And we need many more of the photos taken of the WTC7 Division Triage Center and after the collapses of the towers.

Jim Dwyer of the New York Times told me he didn't have anything from the south side lobbies, but said I should ask NIST.

e^n - June 6, 2007 04:00 PM (GMT)
In the first picture above, that certainly appears to be after WTC2 collapsed, WTC1 did significantly more damage to the walkway. Is this the case for the next two pictures or are they from a seperate video?

Ferric Oxide - June 7, 2007 05:43 PM (GMT)
They are all from the same video. The reference video is there for your review. So far this is the only south side lobby "footage" available. Again, there was a triage center called WTC 7 Division set up at 9:30am. (I'm not sure whether it was in the upper or lower. But remember that the Mayor evacuated this building and people were in and out until the evacuation. Photos are available, and likely in the possession of NIST. This would make for a very pointed and specific Freedom of Information request. (Video and still photographs of the WTC 7 south side upper and lower lobbies from throughout the day on 9/11/2001.)

DoYouEverWonder - June 15, 2007 07:58 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (e^n @ May 23 2007, 05:02 PM)
QUOTE (peterabbit @ May 23 2007, 03:58 PM)
Copyright photographic evidence? Riiight...

NIST does not have any authority to copyright images they do not own.

Photographs belong to the person who takes them, because NIST can't claim copyright they can't distribute them as they see fit. It's entirely possible that $17k is the cost of the copyright from every person involved and processing fees.

Who knows, but i'm willing to put in plenty of cash to support getting them all released.

Any photographs taken by people working for a government agency are not subject to copyright, since they have been paid for with taxpayers dollars.

DoYouEverWonder - June 15, 2007 09:11 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (e^n @ Jun 6 2007, 11:00 AM)
In the first picture above, that certainly appears to be after WTC2 collapsed, WTC1 did significantly more damage to the walkway. Is this the case for the next two pictures or are they from a seperate video?

I agree, these are from after the WTC 2 collapse, but before the WTC 1 collapse, because the south walkway is still in good shape. Still interesting to see the conditions during that time period.

Also, do any of the Official Myth reports address the ConEd Substation that was located down there? If that caught fire, what would have happened?

e^n - June 15, 2007 09:15 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (DoYouEverWonder @ Jun 15 2007, 04:11 PM)
Also,  do any of the Official Myth reports address the ConEd Substation that was located down there? If that caught fire, what would have happened?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean, the NIST Preliminary WTC7 report addresses the ConEd substation existing, but not it's flammable contents, I would imagine several hundred gallons of mineral oil at the least (transformer coolant).

I'm sure the final report will contain some more details if it's deemed relevant.

DoYouEverWonder - June 15, 2007 09:25 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (e^n @ Jun 15 2007, 04:15 PM)
QUOTE (DoYouEverWonder @ Jun 15 2007, 04:11 PM)
Also,  do any of the Official Myth reports address the ConEd Substation that was located down there? If that caught fire, what would have happened?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean, the NIST Preliminary WTC7 report addresses the ConEd substation existing, but not it's flammable contents, I would imagine several hundred gallons of mineral oil at the least (transformer coolant).

I'm sure the final report will contain some more details if it's deemed relevant.

Google before you post please.


QUOTE
One of the biggest problems to hit Lower Manhattan in the aftermath of September 11th was the disruption of the power supply, caused when the existing two substations adjacent to 7 World Trade Center were significantly damaged by the building's fire and subsequent collapse. On May 26, 2004, Con Edison opened the first part of the 7 World Trade substation, a two-part electrical station dedicated to providing power both to the World Trade Center as it continues to develop, and to the surrounding neighborhood.

http://www.projectrebirth.com/rebuild/engineering/conEd.html


According to this there were 2 substations adjacent to WTC 7 and both were significantly damaged by the fire and then the collapse. Could these substations have been a significant source for the smoke that billowed up from Vesey Street most of the day? If there was a lot of fire in these substations, exactly where were they located and what the hell was there to burn inside of them?

DoYouEverWonder - June 16, 2007 11:40 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (e^n @ Jun 15 2007, 04:15 PM)
QUOTE (DoYouEverWonder @ Jun 15 2007, 04:11 PM)
Also,  do any of the Official Myth reports address the ConEd Substation that was located down there? If that caught fire, what would have happened?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean, the NIST Preliminary WTC7 report addresses the ConEd substation existing, but not it's flammable contents, I would imagine several hundred gallons of mineral oil at the least (transformer coolant).

I'm sure the final report will contain some more details if it's deemed relevant.

Aw, gee wiz, e^n, don't have an answer? Maybe those substations deserve a closer look? What the hell was going on down there that day. Why did the man behind the curtain need to block access to that area for until the building collapsed?

user posted image

This was a mechanical site map for the WTC after the 1993 bombing.

Ferric Oxide - June 24, 2007 07:30 PM (GMT)
OK, so now we apparently have some stills from the video showing the condition of the WTC 7 lower lobby (outside doors and outside area) before the collapse of the north tower. I suspect that the Triage center known as "WTC 7 Division" was quartered in the upper south lobby---near that sculpture. We also have that new eye witness who apparently witnessed some bodies and damage there--BEFORE the collapse of either tower.

We need the photos and video of that triage area, the evacuation--and from any point during the day---Cirone, Spak and others have them. This, my friends, will SHOW us what went on---who went in and out that day.

hturt - June 24, 2007 10:19 PM (GMT)
Dr. Steven Jones said the company NIST commissioned to do the WTC7 report were asked only to look at floors 8 thru 46. WTC7 has 47 floors with sub floors.

If anyone thinks NIST is going to put out a report that would not support the OTC they are deluded; the fix is already in.


Ferric Oxide - June 25, 2007 01:43 AM (GMT)
I have a hunch that the insurance company that paid out is waiting intently for the report---the certified report.

JTGOB - June 25, 2007 01:52 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (e^n @ May 23 2007, 10:02 PM)
QUOTE (peterabbit @ May 23 2007, 03:58 PM)
Copyright photographic evidence? Riiight...

NIST does not have any authority to copyright images they do not own.

Photographs belong to the person who takes them, because NIST can't claim copyright they can't distribute them as they see fit. It's entirely possible that $17k is the cost of the copyright from every person involved and processing fees.

Who knows, but i'm willing to put in plenty of cash to support getting them all released.

They can under Fair Use, and this would surely fall under Fair Use.




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