Most everyone has heard of the following phrases:

Ask Questions, Demand Answers.

False Flag Operation

Well how about we combine the two for Loose Change?

It has been well documented, and then surpressed, that Mossad agents had "involvement" in 9/11.

Shouldn't this fact, and other well know facts regarding Mossad operations be included?

I think the official motto of Mossad is ? Make war by way of deception. ??

I find it quite funny that at this time 50 members have viewed this topic but none have bothered to respond. Believe me, all of what I am about to say could have been included in Loose Chance 2nd Edition and the upcoming Final Cut. While the makers seem like they have good intentions, they are rather naive for blaming only the U.S government for the attacks on 9/11.

I have contacted Jason Bermas and he admitted that the 5 Dancing Israeli's story and the Odigo warnings are "rather murky" and that is why they were left out of the movie. He also believe Israeli warned us of the attacks. What a load of shit. They arent murky at all. Bermas and others just didnt feel like looking deeper into the story and putting it on their film.

The official Mossad motto is" By way of deception, thou shalt do war".

This is what Loose Change , Alex Jones and other can't and won't tell you. 9/11 was a false flag operation carried out by Mossad, with the help of the Israeli owned company's like ICTS International, which was the company that provided security at the airports where the planes were hijacked out of. Very easy for Mossad to get jobs there so the hijackers could get through airport security relatively untouched.

Mossad and Israeli's has a history of carrying out false flag operations and framing Arabs and Muslims, like the bombing in Libya in 1986, the Lavon Affair, The USS Liberty attack for example. Thats why Mossad was living next to Mohammed Atta and a couple of the other "hijackers" in Florida. Mossad either killed or captured the real Atta. As the real Atta lived in Hamburg, Germany and was able to speak German. But when he met with flight instructer Rudy Dekkers, he could not respond to Dekkers when Dekkers greeted him in German. Mossad used doubles as their patsies. Remember FBI Director Robert Mueller admitting that the hijackers used false ID of people who were still alive.

Also, how convinient that Daniel Lewin, a captain of the Israeli Sayeret Matkal, which is Israel's Counter-Terrorism and Anti-Hijacking Unit, was sitting right in the middle of the "4 hijackers" on Flight 11. The reason that there is no video of the 4 hijackers boarding Flight 11, is because they were Israeli. Also take into consideration of the fact that Betty Ong, a flight stewardess reported on the phone that the passenger in 9-D I believe was leading the hijacking, and Lewin was seated in 9-D. He lead the hijacking.

Doubles at work on 9/11

Daniel Lewin on Flight 11

911, Iraq, PNAC, All Roads Lead To Israel

I highly recommend registering at Anti-Neocons, which is where the above blog is located. Anti-Neocons is usually ahead of the curb in terms of info. Anyone who joins will get what I mean.

If you are still a bit skeptical, also research the false flag that Mossad tried to carry out 1 month after 9/11 in Mexico. 2 Mossad agents went into the Mexican Parliament building with 9mm Glock pistols, explosives, detonators, wiring and dynamite. They were arrested before they could carry out the attack. When arrested, the 2 Israeli's carried Palestinian passports on them. Their plan was to blow up the Mexican Parliament building and leave behind the passports implicating an Arab/Palestinian attack.

I hope this helps, also for anyone else who was wondering about Mossad involvement in 9/11. Anyone have more questions or want more info, feel free to PM me anytime.

Israeli's caught trying to blow up Mexican Congress building

Israeli Spies Caught Running Wild In America

9/11 Airpors serviced by Israeli company

Thanks for the info Sypher.

Will the makers of Loose Change please address this issue?

After supporting your work, this is the least you can do.

There's no support of substantial quality which suggests beyond a doubt that any intelligence agencies, but our own besides outside intelligence agencies warning ours that ours was involved in the plot on 9/11 there's simply no connection to any other intelligence agency at this time. Thanks but try again. I advise you to not continue this line of questioning as a topic or imply this as truth or fact of involvement when it is exceptionally unfounded. I would also like remind you that anyone that uses this as a subject will be on very thin ice around here.

If anyone has benefited from 9/11 then the Isreali regime is near the top of the list, thats for sure.
There is definatly an Isreali connection, Israeli agents in the U.S. were watching them more or less 24 hours a day and living literally "next door to Mohammed Atta,".

http://antiwar.com/justin/
The High-Fivers
More proof the Israelis were shadowing the 9/11 hijackers


It was the tail-end of a bleak November, 2001: a pall of shocked numbness hung over the country, and a rising war hysteria had nearly everyone cowed. Americans were just beginning to pick themselves up, dust themselves off, and focus on what had happened, and how to react. It was very early on the morning of the 23rd when, scanning the headlines, I came across a Washington Post story by John Mintz: "60 Israelis Detained on Tourist Visas Since Sept. 11." Odd, I thought, why go after the Israelis, probably the least likely suspects?

The subhead was even more intriguing: "Government Calls Several Cases 'of Special Interest,’ Meaning Related to Post-Attacks Investigation." Apparently organized groups of Israelis had been arrested, and "dozens" held without bond. Inquiries to the Justice Department had yielded this response:

"In several cases, such as those in Cleveland and St. Louis, INS officials testified in court hearings that they were 'of special interest to the government,’ a term that federal agents have used in many of the hundreds of cases involving mostly Muslim Arab men who have been detained around the country since the terrorist attacks.

"An INS official who requested anonymity said the agency will not comment on the Israelis. But he said the use of the term 'special interest’ means the case in question is 'related to the investigation of September 11th.’"

It wasn’t some anti-Semitic conspiracy crank sitting in his parents’ basement, or Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who first linked Israeli nationals to the events of 9/11: it was the U.S. government, specifically its law enforcement arm.

This I found utterly astonishing, because it was clear to me, at that point, that there was a link, albeit one largely unknown in its specifics. Why else were the feds casting their nets around for Israelis rather than Arabs, Persians, and, yes, Muslims?

There was more. The original Post piece was updated: the number of detained Israelis had risen to 120. I had been following the story in this space, and noting its significance, in the weeks before Carl Cameron broadcast his famous four-part report on Fox News, which exposed the extensive Israeli spy network in this country and opened with this electric charge:

"There is no indication that the Israelis were involved in the 9-11 attacks, but investigators suspect that the Israelis may have gathered intelligence about the attacks in advance, and not shared it. A highly placed investigator said there are – quote – 'tie-ins.' But when asked for details, he flatly refused to describe them, saying, – quote – 'evidence linking these Israelis to 9-11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information.'"

The story, as it developed in the months – and years – to come, sent me down an investigative path that has yet to reach its endpoint. What we know is this: in the months prior to 9/11, bands of Israelis posing as "art students" [.pdf] had carried out what seemed like a coordinated probing of U.S. government facilities, including locations not known to the public. A secret government report detailing the activities of the "art students" – and their background as highly trained in explosives and the art of telecommunications interception – was leaked to the media, and the story was again in the headlines. But not for long.

This is potentially one of the most important 9/11-related stories ever reported, and yet the number of serious investigative pieces done on it can hardly be counted on the fingers of one hand. Antiwar.com has been following this from the outset, and you can go here for a complete archive of my columns on the subject, plus mainstream media pieces.

Of particular interest is the coverage by The Forward, the oldest newspaper of the Jewish community in North America. They reported on one key aspect of the Israeli-9/11 connection: the story of the five employees of a moving van company apprehended hours after the twin towers were struck. They had been observed in Liberty State Park, New Jersey, overlooking the Hudson, with a clear view of the burning towers. A woman had seen them from the window of her apartment building overlooking the parking lot: they came out of a white van, and they were jumping up and down, high-fiving each other with obvious glee. Their mood, it could be said, was celebratory. They were also filming the towers as they burned, and taking still photos.

The woman called the cops, who put out a "be on the lookout" alert. I’ll let Christopher Ketcham, author of a blockbuster new report appearing in Counterpunch, tell the rest of the story:

"At 3:56 p.m., twenty-five minutes after the issuance of the FBI BOLO, officers with the East Rutherford Police Department stopped the commercial moving van through a trace on the plates. According to the police report, Officer Scott DeCarlo and Sgt. Dennis Rivelli approached the stopped van, demanding that the driver exit the vehicle. The driver, 23-year-old Sivan Kurzberg, refused and 'was asked several more times [but] appeared to be fumbling with a black leather fanny pouch type of bag’. With guns drawn, the police then 'physically removed’ Kurzberg, while four other men – two more men had apparently joined the group since the morning – were also removed from the van, handcuffed, placed on the grass median and read their Miranda rights. They had not been told the reasons for their arrest. Yet, according to DeCarlo’s report, 'this officer was told without question by the driver [Sivan Kurzberg], 'We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem.’ Another of the five Israelis, again without prompting, told Officer DeCarlo – falsely – that 'we were on the West Side Highway in New York City during the incident.'"

This is, I believe, the most detailed account yet published of what actually happened that fateful day, and Ketcham clearly shows that the Israelis were certainly aware of why they had been stopped. The cops practically had to drag them out of the van at gunpoint, and it is surely suspicious that they immediately starting denying any role in "the incident." How did they know they weren’t being stopped for a traffic violation? No wonder they were held for 71 days, mostly in solitary confinement, and interrogated. Some repeatedly failed polygraph tests when questioned about possible surveillance activities. The FBI agents who interrogated them reportedly called them "the high-fivers," because of their odd behavior at Liberty State Park.

The Forward confirmed that the company they ostensibly worked for, Urban Moving Systems, of Weehawken, New Jersey, was in all likelihood a Mossad front. Dominik Suter, the owner, fled to Israel the day after a police raid on his office. The five detained Israelis were sent back to Israel, where they claimed to be innocent victims of harassment. Here they are on an Israeli talk show. Of course they don’t mention any of the above, or that they were found to have multiple passports in their possession, along with $4,700 stuffed in a sock and maps of New York City highlighted in certain spots. Ketcham quotes one local law enforcement official as saying

"It looked like they’re hooked in with this, it looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park."

Ketcham, utilizing the public record, news reports, and his own sources, has painted the clearest portrait yet of the "urban mover" Mossad cell, and how they shadowed the five hijackers who took over American Airlines flight 77, which struck the Pentagon to such devastating effect. Living, working, and socializing within a six-mile radius of Bergen County, these two groups circled each other until, on 9/11, as a dark pall fell over Manhattan and much of the rest of the world, one applauded the others’ handiwork.

Ketcham’s story of how the FBI investigation was scotched by high-ups ought to outrage every patriotic American citizen. He cites a source at ABC News – which covered this story on 20/20 in a treatment I consider a whitewash – as saying "They feel the higher echelons torpedoed the investigation into the Israeli New Jersey cell. Leads were not fully investigated."

The same source agrees with the general assessment of CIA officers, and intelligence experts such as James Bamford and Vincent Cannistraro, that Urban Moving Systems was a covert Israeli intelligence-gathering operation, most likely engaged in electronic interception and other means of spying on radical elements within Northern New Jersey’s Muslim milieu.

In the course of this, and given their geographical proximity, it is not beyond reason to posit that the Urban Movers were watching the future hijackers, listening to their phone conversations, reading their emails, and otherwise keeping fully apprised of their activities. What made the Israelis jump for joy, as one counterintelligence officer is said to have put it, is that "The Israelis felt that in some way their intelligence had worked out – i.e., they were celebrating their own acumen and ability as intelligence agents."

The story of how this line of investigation was suppressed, both in the law enforcement community and in the media, is a saga in itself. I know that Ketcham worked on this story long and hard, and had supposedly firm commitments from both Salon.com and The Nation to publish his work. Both projects were killed at the last minute, in one case an hour before it was scheduled to run. What’s particularly stupid, in the case of Salon, is that they ran his previous piece, on the "Israeli Art Student Mystery," years ago – and now refuse to follow up their own story.

As for why the government investigation into the Israeli connection was scotched, Ketcham cites a former CIA counter-terrorism officer: "There was no question but that [the order to close down the investigation] came from the White House."

I have to tell you that it hasn’t been easy following this story over the years. I was told in the beginning, and in no uncertain terms, that this line of investigation is forbidden, that it’s "too hot to handle," and, implicitly, that the truth and the facts have to take second place to political correctness. To even mention this story, in certain quarters, is considered prima facie evidence of anti-Semitism. Case closed.

In spite of a determined effort on the part of some to redefine anti-Semitism to constrain critics of Israeli government actions, there is an equally determined pushback – a real movement to treat Israel as a nation like any other. That is, as a nation with its own interests, which, if truth be told, it pursues aggressively, and not only in the occupied territories and Lebanon, but also right here in the U.S. The story of Israel’s underground army in America – and its foreknowledge of the 9/11 terrorist attacks – is based on facts, not fantasies, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with anti-Semitism – and everything to do with establishing the full context of the worst terrorist attack in our history.

9/11 was the opening shot of a battle we are still fighting to this day, as our soldiers fall in Iraq, and the hints of a new front in our endless "war on terrorism" – Iran – are hardly subtle. That signal event launched the war hysteria that has only lately begun to peter out.

One of the major reasons why the public has turned against the Iraq war has been the revelation that the "intelligence" we acquired about Iraq’s alleged "weapons of mass destruction" was manipulated, cherry-picked, and outright falsified in order to make the case for the invasion. If it turns out that the Israelis really did know – that they picked up "chatter" from the groups they were watching, and gained fairly detailed knowledge of the hijackers’ plans – it will alter how we think about 9/11, and change our perception of the perpetual war that ensued.

Go here to order the Ketcham piece, which is not yet online. You can only get it on dead-tree, but, believe me, it’s worth it.

Ha I seriously hope you were being sarcastic when you posted this. I really dont care about being on this ice anywhere

Anyhoo, I liked the article by Justin Raimondo. Although the Mossad weren't just following or shadowing the hijackers, they were handling them. Why else would Mossad be living next door to several of the hijackers but not give US officials a detailed warning of what might occur?

Its very simple once you make the connection. The reason there is no footage of the "arab hijackers" boarding the plane at Boston Logan Airport is because the hijackers were Israeli's. The Israeli's did know what was going to happen. Why do they know? Because they were the ones who were making it happen with the help of fellow Israeli's and Zionist who facilitated them and gave them the clearance they needed to carry out the attack.

Just look at the hit piece CNN ran on January 30th I believe on the allegation that Jews were behind 9/11. Now, of course that if false. But by doing that, they sought out to discredit everyone who has been saying 9/11 was an Israeli false flag, but in the end CNN discredited themselves.

Just listen to the full, unabridged interview, and see how CNN distorted Christopher Bollyn's views...

http://www.iamthewitness.com/Bollyn-CNN-interview.html

9/11 was for the greater part an Israeli false-flag operation. Loose Change will not talk about Israeli involvement, mainly because much of their funding and promotion is coming from prominent Zionists like Deborah Simon. The reason LC is getting so much publicity is because it focuses attention away from Israel, and instead onto the Bush Administration.

Yeah I have Bollyn's full interview which is about 40 mins roughly in length. But I did not know about LC getting some of their funding and promotion from Zionist like Deborah Simon. But it is obvious that if LC mentioned Israel and Mossad, they would not have gotten 1/3 of the funding and promotion that they have.

Man, at first I was unsure of it. But now, im almost fully convinced that the LC boys are shills. Hopefully I am wrong.

The evidence and motivation behind 9/11 all points to the far-right Israeli Likud Party and their international supporters. but how do we get the Sheeple to look calmly and seriously at our accusations, without being mislead by the media into believing that that such claims are "anti-Semitic"? :unsure:

Well, getting the sheeple to look calmly and seriously at out accusations, without being misled by the media that the claims are anti-Semitic is the hard part.

I think a way to go about it would be to present out evidence of why we believe the things we do. Also, to in a way, explain to them how the media works and how just because something makes it on the news does NOT make it true, or even half-true.

Another way, would be to have them find the answers to the questions they have for themselves. I know that's how I learned. To kind of lead them into the subject and then let them find things out for themselves. The people who actually want to find answers to their questions and the truth, will.

But it does make it a bit more difficult when hit pieces like this one CNN on Jews Did 9/11

No worries though, cause a few people came to me after they saw this piece, and I grilled the crap out of it. Rebuttal to CNN hit piece

Clarify for me . The Israeli's were suicide hijackers then?

Yep they were. That is why there isint any footage of the alleged Arab hijackers. And do you know why there isint any footage? Because there were no Arab hijackers!..Also the company that handled provided security for the airports in which the planes departed from, was Israeli owned ICTS International.

Now, there are different theories about the hijackings. One of them is that the planes were hijacked by remote control. Which it does sound a bit out there, but it's NOT impossible. The technology is definatly availible. Look a bit into Dov Zakheim for more info.

But one of the flight attendants on Flight 11 I believe, Madeline Sweeney identified Daniel Lewin, the captain of the world's most elite anti-hijacking unit, as the lead hijacker. Now, this could merely be a coincidence. Although I dont think that it is. It's even possible that Israel was getting rid of Lewin because he had loose lips.

Sweeney said there were four men doing the hijacking. 3 of them were middle easterners, the other one spoke perfect english. Im sure she was talking about Lewin as the person who spoke perfect english. Look at my other post in this part of the forum for more info

I don't think we can assume that the hijackers were necessarily on the planes when they crashed.

The following is taken from Warrior Soul: Memoir of a Navy Seal, by Chuck Pfarrer, Random House, 2004, page 5.

If Navy SEALS can do it, why not Sayerat Metkal? That would explain the long circuitous routes of the four planes. They could have bailed out over a rural area after rigging the cockpits for remote navigation.

Yep. It's a possibility. The hijackers of 9/11 may be living among us today!

It's not improbable :unsure:

Let's be honest... if LC-FC mentioned the Israeli Connection... it wouldn't be made. And, everyone knows what I mean. Whoever said.. it's being financed, because it essentially shifts blame and attention away from Israel... is right on target.

Let me just say this... Israel has so many fingerprints on 9/11 - that I originally thought it was (strictly) a Mossad false flag operation. It wasn't until I looked into NORAD, and the US's response, that I concluded... there had to be US involvement.

But how many had to be involved to orchestrate a stand down within NORAD? Perhaps very few, and it didn't have to include the upper reaches of the civilian or military command.

Remember there are quite a few pro-Israel officers sprinkled throughout the US Military. A very small cell of officers loyal to Israel could have enacted the stand down in concert with the overall 9/11 conspiracy.

Think of it as a handful of Lyman Lemnitzers doing the dirty work of the conspiracy from within the US Military.

Can someone list for me, one by one, the direct evidence of Israel's involvemant in the 9-11 attacks? By the way, I do not consider hypothetical motive, or the 5 dancing Jews, to be direct evidence of Israel's participation.

Show me the goods and I will look at it.

I've been investigating this crime for a very long time, and if you don't find the fact that five Israelis; two of whom belonged to the Mossad were seen photographing and celebrating suspicious, then it is clear that you are nothing more than another JREF Crypto-Zionist.

I'm sure you would love to look at the evidence, and then attempt to "debunk" it - JREF will always find innocuous alternative explanations to suit their agenda. However, even assertions relating to Israels involvement are based upon common sense suppositions. Therefore, if you cannot even see the merit in these, then this proves that you either have an extremely myopic view of the world, or your ulterial motives lean toward diffusing any crticism of Israel and/or the official narrative.

I wasn't born yesterday! :P

It kinda sounds like you dont actually have hard evidence of Israel's involvemant. But since you mentioned it, what is the evidence that two of them were indeed Mossad agents?

There has to be more to the Israeli accusations then the 5 dancing Jews, the USS Liberty, Netanyahu's stupid remark, and "A Clean Break". Pleasse tell me you have something substantial. Names, dates, addresses, emails, plane tickets, rental cars, intercepted phone calls, etc etc. This is what a criminal case is based on.

Because I don't choose to share my information with JREFers by no means suggests that I do not have a case. If you asked me a year or so ago I would have been willing to discuss this with you, however, since then I've learnt alot about JREF and your gameplan and objectives. As I've said before, I don't feed JREFers.

We're fighting an infowar here, and I am not conducting this via message boards.

The bottom line is this: JREF are the enemy, and in times of war, you do not share information with the enemy, nor invite them into your tent.

If you don't want to provide your evidence I can't force you. I thought maybe you had something interesting.

Just so you know that I am not completaly biased towards Israel, I do have some real suspicions that the USS Liberty was indeed intentional. Why do I believe Israel would do something like that? Just look at the Lavon Affair, which everyone accepts was indeed a real case of failed covert ops by Israel.

Therefore, before discussing this any further, would you agree that in the absense of wire taps and signed confessions by all parties involved etc.... if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, wouldn't you agree that the chances are that it is a duck? ;)

Btw, the claim that two of the 5 dancing Israelis were Mossad operatives was published in Foreward - A Jewish Publiction. I think it's safe to say that there isn't any anti-Israeli bias there.

Um, yes, if it looks like a duck and smell like a duck and poops like a duck, then its a duck. This is funny but its not evidence.

I'll look at the Forward article.

- this is from Rense:

"The respected New York Jewish newspaper, The Forward, reported in March 2002, however, that it had received a briefing on the case of the five Israelis from a US official who was regularly updated by law enforcement agencies. This is what he told The Forward: "The assessment was that Urban Moving Systems was a front for the Mossad and operatives employed by it." He added that "the conclusion of the FBI was that they were spying on local Arabs", but the men were released because they "did not know anything about 9/11". "

I can not find the article on Forward.

You cannot find it... because it was pulled (cover up) just like this other article was pulled from ABC's website:

Original:

http://www.forward.com/issues/2002/02.03.15/news2.html

Archive:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060518073413/...3.15/news2.html

Original:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyN...van_020621.html

Archive:

http://web.archive.org/web/20040928075415/...van_020621.html


Also, read this thread I started... I can't remember, but I think I made a few good points in it:

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...?showtopic=3328

Alright. Well, it looks like there is a reasonable suspicioun that the Israelis were spying on Muslem terrorists in the USA. Nothing terribly bad about that.

The fact that some of them may have been filming the towers burn and may have appeared to be amused by the whole situation is indeed troubling, but it is not evidence that they were involved.

Its easy for conspiracy theorists to decide that the Israelis knew about the attacks, didnt tell the Americans, and celebrated as their little secret came true. I personally would like to see a little more evidence that they knew about it.

Isn't there also a report that the Israelis warned the Americans before hand?

This quote from the Fox news report about the possibly Israeli spies confirms the suspicion that Israelis were indeed spying on Arabs in the USA and did indeed try to warn the Americans. Furthermore, this fits very well with the Idigo warning, sent as a text message to two Israelis outside of the USA, which was not specific. It suggests that the Israelis knew something was going to happen, but not exactly what.

"HUME: Carl, I want to take you back to your report last night on those 60 Israelis who were detained in the anti-terror investigation, and the suspicion that some investigators have that they may have picked up information on the 9/11 attacks ahead of time and not passed it on. There was a report, you'll recall, that the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency, did indeed send representatives to the U.S. to warn, just before 9/11, that a major terrorist attack was imminent. How does that leave room for the lack of a warning?

"CAMERON: I remember the report, Brit. We did it first internationally right here on your show on the 14th. What investigators are saying is that that warning from the Mossad was nonspecific and general, and they believe that it may have had something to do with the desire to protect what are called sources and methods in the intelligence community. The suspicion being, perhaps those sources and methods were taking place right here in the United States.

The question came up in select intelligence committee on Capitol Hill today. They intend to look into what we reported last night, and specifically that possibility -- Brit.

HUME: So in other words, the problem wasn't lack of a warning, the problem was lack of useful details?

CAMERON: Quantity of information.

HUME: All right, Carl, thank you very much. "

Um, Calvin, there's a different report I'd like to bring to your attention: that is the report of the seat numbers of the hijackers coming from flight attendant Betty Ong in her phone call from AAL11.

She reported the hijackers coming from seats 9A, 9B, 2A and 2B. She also reported an injured passenger in 10B. This is not disputed by anyone.

http://www.boston.com/news/packages/undera...onstruction.htm

The last two were assigned to two "Arabs," the al-Shehri brothers Wail and Waleed, who later turned up alive and well in the Middle East.

Seat 9B was assigned to a captain in Israel's elite commando unit Sayerat Metkal.

Seat 9A was assigned to a man who worked for a San Francisco company with very close connections to Israel.

As for seat 10B, containing the injured passenger, that was assigned to Satam al Suqami, one of the al-Qaeda Arabs now alleged to have hijacked the plane.

Is it possible the Israeli commandos shot Suqami at the outset of the attack, instead of the other way around as described by the official story?

------------------------------------------

Forget about all this stuff about the Israelis spying on the Arab hijackers. That's disinformation. That's a cover story to deflect us away from their much more sinister role.

We have significant evidence, from a credible, first-hand eyewitness, that the hijackers themselves were Israeli agents.

"The last two were assigned to two "Arabs," the al-Shehri brothers Wail and Waleed, who later turned up alive and well in the Middle East."

- I would like to see photos of these two men, alive and well, after 9-11. They are media superstars if they are still alive.

"Seat 9A was assigned to a man who worked for a San Francisco company with very close connections to Israel."

- A man, who worked for a comany, that is close to Israel. Who is this man? Is he guilty simply by association? What training does he have?


"Is it possible the Israeli commandos shot Suqami at the outset of the attack, instead of the other way around as described by the official story?"

-Anything is possible. It is possible that George Washington was a crypto-Jew. But this is all meaningless if you cant prove it. And without proof...who cares?

"Forget about all this stuff about the Israelis spying on the Arab hijackers. That's disinformation. That's a cover story to deflect us away from their much more sinister role. "

- Once again. Prove that its disinfo. Prove that its a cover story.

I think Israelis spying on Arabs in the USA just before 9-11 is a pretty damning accusation.

It is not my obligation to prove they are still alive. They would not be media stars because all the large media outlets are fanatically pro-Israel and completely committed to the official story.

The government has never proven the hijackers are who they claim they are. They will never prove that. The burden of proof is on them, not me. Therefore, it is just as likely that these two were dark-skinned Israeli agents, playing the role of Arabs to frame Arabs, as it is that they were al-Qaeda.

You seem to be forgetting that this man's seat number was named by Betty Ong as belonging to one of the hijackers. That's a little bit more than "guilt by association."

You must be from the JREF school of argument. You're always trying to shift the burden of proof onto others. It is you who must prove it was Arabs who hijacked those planes, and that is something neither you nor anyone else will ever be able to do. The one thing that could prove your case is the boarding videos from the three airports. That would show us who was really on those planes. But that footage has mysteriously disappeared. Doesn't that make you wonder?

"It is not my obligation to prove they are still alive. They would not be media stars because all the large media outlets are fanatically pro-Israel and completely committed to the official story."

-Sorry dude, but if you are an honest person that really cares about the "truth" then it is indeed your obligation to back up your accusations with evidence.

"It is you who must prove it was Arabs who hijacked those planes, and that is something neither you nor anyone else will ever be able to do"

-These men are on the manifests. They bought tickets in their names. They had travel documents in their names. They took flying lessons using their names. They rented cars, rented rooms, bought pizza, in their names. If you believe that all of this is phony bologna, then back it up with something...anything.

Otherwise all you are saying is just accusation after theory after assumption...with zero evidence to back it up. No one is really going to care.

Calvin... the Mossad spying on Arabs (warning US of the attacks) ... is such disinformation... that's a classic technique they use... see, when they are caught red-handed (or fear the truth may come out) ... they will admit to a smaller crime or misdoing (usually made up or distorted truth) in order to distract away from the (real) major crime.

This is what the US has done in regards to the Bush Administration's culpability concerning 9/11. They release all this information (and make it seem like people are whistleblowing by leaking things the whitehouse doesn't want released) about how they were warned that OBL AND AL QAEDA were about to attack... and, although on the surface... it seems like the USG is being outed on a massive intelligence failure (which, could make them partly to blame for letting 9/11 happen) what's really going on is a very sly propaganda campaign that is designed to reinforce the official story, by creating the illusion that there was all of this corroborative intelligence information that showed (and proved definitively) that OBL was planning to attack the US.

Don't you see how clever and cunning this is? The USG doesn't care about taking part of the blame (smaller misdoing) ... so long as it reinforces (and cements into a fact of public awareness and opinion) the lie that OBL and al Qaeda are the perps behind 9/11.

And on the manifests, what were their names or pseudonyms ?

Ah yes, the manifests, let's take a closer look at these...

http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...0&#entry8101401

So, who controlled security at both Logan and Newark, the very same airports where no footage of the hijackers was captured? Oh yes, Israeli owned and controlled ICTS, who subsequently had a clause inserted into the Patriot Act granting them immunity from investigation.

They bought tickets in their names? I think you mean to say that the tickets were purchased under Arabic names.

Again, I think you mean to say that people assuming the identities of Arabs took flying lessons, rented cars, rented rooms, and bought pizza.

Beached and 28th Kingdom, do not waste your time with people who want to argue just to try and disprove you because it does not agree with their own opinions that they so dearly hold on to. If you aren't already members go over to Anti-Neocons

All of the information is out there for them to research verify for themselves. I posted several links that can answer more than enough questions for anyone and everyone who has not made the Israeli connection to 9/11. Since anyone with a half brain and a bit of common knowledge about False Flag operations and the Israeli Mossad can tell you it was an Israeli/US false flag.

It's all simple once you make the connections that are obviously there. If you do not even have a general knowledge of False Flag's, Israeli False Flag's and the Israeli Mossad, 9/11 will not make complete sense to you. Just saying 9/11 was an inside job by the US government and then cherrypicking information will not help you prove your case, because it is flawed. That's directed to the LC crowd.

Well, maybe to someone who cant think for themselves but well educated people will point out the holes in just saying 9/11 was an inside job story.

We must assume that the hijackers (if you believe there actually were planes) had to show some sort of governmant issued ID inorder to board the plane. Accepting that, we can therefore assume that people holding IDs with the hijackers names bought tickets and boarded the planes. Could these all have been stolen IDs? Ofcourse. What would be the ultimate evidence of this? If all 19 hijackers appeared on CNN or BBC or Al Jazeera. What an expose that would be!!!

So, if all 19 had their IDs stolen by the Mossad, or CIA, or MI6, then where are these men? Why don't they show their faces and blow the lid on the entire governmant case??

And I don't mean in the few days right after 9-11 when everything was crazy and information was all over the place..I mean today. Im talking "CNN visits with the alleged hijackers 5 years later and finds out how life is doing since they flew the planes".

I'll tell you one thing for sure. If all 19 hijackers, with the hijackers names did show up, and could prove their identities, then I would have no choice but to believe something very shitty has transpired.

Mohammed Atta...where are you?

This is mostly likely the case given the evidence at hand:

1. Muslim patsies
2. Perhaps some were double agents due to the GID-CIA-ISI links
3. All dead; Less likely, but perhaps 1% chance that the double agents amongsts them are alive and under witness protection.
4. No one had stolen IDs, but perhaps fake IDs in which the `Arabs used "kunyas" (nickname in `Arabic) to hide their real identity. Arabs have common names. The Saudi embassy tried to rid themselves of any blame immediately after 9/11 by issuing this "stolen or "mistaken" identity scenario. Remember the bin Laden family associates and other Saudi `Arabs left U.S. immediately when others in USA weren't allowed to fly. Walid Al Shehri isn't alive. I have posted numerous times, but Dylan for some reason and others continue to believe he is alive. The Speigel german magazine noted that the Al Shehri reported alive in Morocco was actually "Al Shri" (hence a different name). Walid's dad and Atta's dad immediately issued statements that they were mistaken and alive, and so far they recanted and know that their sons are dead.

Yes I do believe planes were used and crashed into both Twin Towers, but nice try. Do you know why the hijackers didnt not have to show some sort of government ID before boarding the plane? Because the alleged 19 hijackers never boarded the planes. That's why there is no video that shows the hijackers at Boston Logan International Airport or the other airports in which the alleged hijackers boarded the planes.

IF there is, I have yet to see it, which I would of by now. All of the alleged 19 hijackers will not be appearing on CNN or Al Jazeera anytime soon. The identities were not stolen, but were forged or fake identities that the Mossad planted. Like how Atta's passport was discovered blocks within the WTC. It was deliberately planted there obviously. As to who planted it there, you might want to give the 5 Dancing Israeli's a Google search.

I agree with you that if the alleged 19 hijackers stole people's identity that they would come foward and protest their innocence absolutely. The problem is that many of the Arab names Mossad used were common, so in a fuckup Mossad used the names of people who happened to be alive. Like the Saudi Arabian pilot who actually threatened the FBI with legal action since the FBI named him one of the alleged 19 hijackers.

Also, Mohammed Atta's case is rather interesting, but classic Mossad. Allegedly, Atta was taking flight training at Huffman Aviation in Florida I believe. Atta SR described his son as shy and timid. But yet according to the official story, he was seen in strip clubs getting lap dances and snorting Cocaine. But, the Mossad just happened to be in Florida as well.

At first I thought that Mossad was following Atta and the other alleged hijackers in Florida. But then it dawned on me that the Mossad wasnt following the alleged hijackers, but Mossad were the ones taking the flight training. Thats why the Mossad double who looked like Atta could not speak German when flight instructor at Huffman Aviation Rudi Dekkers greeted him one morning in German, since Dekkers himself is a Dutch citizen. Dekkers himself called Atta an asshole. The real Atta would have been able to respond in German since he lived in Hamburg, Germany before. Also it were not fanatic Muslims getting lapdances and doing Coke, it was arrogant Mossad punks. Mossad captured and killed the real Atta. Even Atta Sr believes so himself.

It makes even more sense when Israeli officials visited Washington in August of 2001 and warned of an alleged terrorist cell, possibly Al-Qaeda, consisting of about 200 members. They gave no more details about it allegations. But in the time between 9/11 and December of 2001, 200 members of a cell were arrested and detained. But they were Israeli spies as reported by Carl Cameron on FOX News. Many of them were explosive and wiretapping specialist and army veterans. Logic would dictate that the 200 members Israeli officials warned of were not Al-Qaeda, but Israeli spies.

Sypher- i just read through your entire post and Im trying my best to find any evidence. All I see is your hypothesis of what occured. You assume that the Mossad piloted the planes and stole Arab ids. You assume that the Mossad killed Atta before hand. You assume that the hijackers did not have to show ids when they checked into the airport. You assume that it was Israelis getting lapdances.

You can assume all you want and use "common sense" to come up to all the conclusions you like...but what makes any of your ideas any more valid then the governmants? Since when did assumption and hypothesis trump evidence? I would respect you a little more if you instead stated "I have evidence that the official story is bullshit, but I dont have any physical evidence of what the true story is".

Sometimes being an agnostic is more intelligent then being a believer.

Cui Bono?

Arabs? USA? Military-Industrial-Complex? Muslims? Larry Silverstein? Oil Companies? Israel?

I think the answer/s are clear enough.