I am now, 99% of the opinion, that the war is lost. Why?

The anti-war movemant has mobilized tens of thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands of protestors against the war. They have shut down Washington D.C. several times, clogged up NYC, raised a ruckus in all major American cities.

And what has come of all these monumental actions? A Democratic held Senate and House that is unwilling to set a timetable or defund the war.

The anti-war movemant also has wide support from the international community, tons of VIPs in the USA, Hollywood, etc etc.

And what do they have to show? Nothing...Squat...Zippo.

Now, look at the Truth movemant. They get maybe 1/100th the turn out at events. Their resources is miniscule. Their support from the international community is nill.

If the anti-war movemant, with all its power, support, funds, cant accomplish crap, then the 9-11 Truth Movemant...well...you get the picture.

The war is lost. Its a simple analysis of influence, turn-out, funds, and support...and it just doesn't add up.

Thanks for the ride...its been a hoot.

I beg to differ with you, the truth movement does has international support. So I would not want to jump to conclusions on that. The anti-war movement has it's own problems to deal with. Their causes are one in the same, but like any two seperate eitities, conflicts do arise.

In any kind of grassroots excursion there comes a time of "leveling out" it is then at that time, new approaches need to be sought to improve the current system. Just like programmers who design software, a system of continual improvement must take place in order to keep the product cutting edge. The same concept can be applied in anything. We're not re-inventing the wheel, but finely tuning the spokes.

We know that what transpired back in 01 was a huge deception, and it has drastically changed this country in the past six years. When you begin to look into the individuals under suspicion for having a helping hand in what occurred. You find yourself looking down a very deep and ugly rabbit hole. But the deeper you dig, the more begin to put pieces together and vast portions of the who, what, why, and when begin to give credibility to the notion that we've been lied to.

Someone has alot to gain from this horrible incident, and trust me... it isn't just a couple of thugs in politics, and business. Either this is a real horrible spot in human history or this is the incident that every culture and religion has prophecies towards the end of their books. If you've dug into the rabbit hole, you've probably heard of verichip and their product. Well, I won't go into that too deep, that would be for another section of the forums. hehe but yea... just in case the shit is really gonna hit the fan, it's best we wake as many people up and prepare for the worst and expect the best.

Anyways man, don't allow apathy make you feel like the bastards have won. They haven't! One way or another justice will prevail!

couple of documentaries to catch, since loose change final cut isn't out yet
The trials of henry kissinger
Orwell rolls in his grave
America: freedom to fascism
The Corporation
Welcome to the police state
Dark Secrets of the bohemian grove
Occupation 101
-peace

... but the truth movement is international...

Dude. 100 people showed up at GZ on 9-11-07. That is not a protest...thats not even a decent house party.

If 9-11 Truth really had mass support and mass acceptance, there would have been 100,000 people at GZ...not 100.

I used to go to massive street protests, back when I got out of the Air Force and Vietnam was still happening and we were making incursions into Cambodia. But I can no longer march for miles, only to be ignored by the media. That is not a valid way of working anymore. The massive (worldwide!) protests against the Iraq invasion should prove that.

Just because huge numbers of people don't take to the streets about 9/11 doesn't mean very much any more. Those who have learned -- and accepted -- the truth that the official story cannot possibly be true are far more numerous than any street demonstration may indicate.

The lie about 9/11 is such a big lie that people don't know what to do with it. I don't know what to do with it. Among other efforts, on the 11th of every month I plant a sign in my front yard, with a message about supporting a new independent, objective investigation that points to relevant web sites. I have no idea how many people see it and look into it. But the sign has not been defaced or removed once -- since April of this year. And my postman doesn't look at me funny, and the city has not come nosing about or anything.

IMO, when a lie is so big, it's going to take our efforts over a long time to gather enough steam so we have enough of the right people in a position to actually address the situation in a way that will really bring about a wider awareness. Take climate change for example. It has taken someone like a former Vice President to create a documentary and win the Nobel Peace Prize and now folks will start looking seriously at what climate change means. But Al Gore has been working on this issue for how long -- two, three dozen years?

The folks who've done the work to open eyes regarding 9/11 have only been at it 5 years or so. I think the "movement" is doing very well, actually.

Eventually this will turn out like the JFK assasination. A large majority of people will believe there was a conspiracy to do it but, they can't prove it and they don't pay it much thought. Of course there's still people who believe rabidly in such a conspiracy and are still trying to prove it and I think that's where the "truth" movement will eventually wind up.

Honestly, unless something very dramatic happens in the near future, it is pure and utter irrational wishful thinking to think the Truth movemant, in its current state and strength, will change a damn thing.

And everyone here...knows it.

They may deny it in public..they may deny it to their friends, neighbors, and relatives. But deep down, we all know it.

I think there will eventually be an outcome to these "truther" sites. It may not launch an independent investigation into 9/11. It may not reveal any new information when someone with the necessary stroke begins to wonder louder why the security tapes at the Pentagon--all of the tapes of a public building, built, staffed, funded, and operated with taxpayer monies are being withheld. I have a theory that the tapes will more closely reveal what is already widely accepted that flight 77 hit the Pentagon.

Maybe you're right about this one episodic movement.

However, in the macro, I feel that there is another outcome that is probably going to lead us somewhere that this site, perhaps, never intended. Eventually, there will be worldwide religious upheaval. When that happens, the US will be in a particularly vulnerable position with the multi-denominational military we field. If we are seriously challenged by an Islamic country, would the Muslims under arms wearing the uniform of the US be trusted by their comrades, would they fight?
By constantly reminding the world of the horrors on 9/11, this site, inadvertently, is stoking the fire or religious intolerance--it is totally inadvertent, totally without malacie, and totally unintentional in every sense of the word but it is doing it because everytime the video is viewed, the sight of Muslims killing Christians is the subtext.. And when it is eventually cemented that the nineteen hijackers acted out of a love for Islam, what else can the Christian community deduce?

It would be nice if we took individual actions as those of an individual and did not impune his or her religious views but when actions are done in the name of those views, divorcing the former from the latter is all but impossible. The next attack, whatever it may be, will be grander, more sinister, and probably have a higher body count.

We train for it all of the time and I can tell you that we are woefully unprepared. Currently we're looking at H5N1. In the past we looked at Tulerimia, Smallpox, Anthrax and some that I prefer not to imagine. Innoculating 4,000,000 people in 48 hours using is going to be a disaster. If the terrorists ever get to the point of sophistication as to where they can aresolize weaponized anthrax or sarin, game over folks. (here is what sarin did to the Kurds courtesy of Saddam)

We're talking quarantines of stadiums full of people. We're talking about a breakdown in the social service safety net which would be totally strained by the time the disease enters it's third week (Smallpox has an incubation period of 7-17 days during which vaccine must be administered--while you are probably feeling fine for example). This is what it looks like (Follow the link):

My Webpage

With hundreds of thousands of people not showing up for work, the economy breaks down. Economies create other jobs (i.e. service industry jobs). No employees at the factory, no restaurant outside the factory gates. Where do the newly unemployed go for their medical care etc...to the public health offices which are dealing with innoculations.

If this is a terrorist attack (with smallpox you'll know for sure that it was very early on since it has been all but eliminated), God help them. If they are Islamic terrorists, what would our response be to those dancing in the streets of Damascus or Tehran? I doubt it would be as comparatively humane as our excursions into Afghanistan and Iraq.

This will probably get me ostracized but ever since we took God out of the classroom, we've been lighting the fuse for this sort of intolerance. You'll please note I did not mention my personal belief in Jesus Christ. In fact, if you were to place scripture in the classroom from the Quoran or Book of Mormon, I'd be pleased as punch because while it isn't my beliefs, it would be a teaching of the basic fundamentals of living in a society.

Arbor, your post is full of lies, and your signature is also a lie.

The Truth Movement is most certainly international.

The Truth Movement doesn't go for huge protest rallies because most of us realize that that is not an effective mode of resistance anymore. We put our time and energy into creative media projects to spread the truth.

The video of Palestinians celebrating on 9/11 was exposed as fraudulent- it wasn't even filmed on 9/11.

I really question your motives broadcasting this misleading message of despair.

The footage of the Palestinians is real. No one has been able to prove it is other wise. As for the pathetic turn out at Truther rallies, they hoped to get thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people in NYC on 9-11-07. They talked about having venues that could handle huge amounts of people. And they expected to raise $100,000 for first responders. None of this materialized.

So who exactly in the Truth movemant doesn't believe in large protest rallies? It surely isn't We Are Change and LTW.

I believe that the Truth-Movement can archive something
huge ... even if I'm a "JREF'er" and not a member of the TM.

Seperate Religion, Education and State.

I completely disagree with your analysis but at least you were open and I will now understand where you are coming from when you post.

Your fellow JREFians^TM will believe you have gone completely woo now Oliver.

The footage I saw was authentic...some were even holding newspapers reporting the attacks.

Unbelieveable.

You "completely" disagree with my analysis? How so?

And when you try to seperate religion from Education and State....it has never happened because the technicians in Education and State are, by fact that they are human, religious bodies or at least humans who have religious leanings.

I think the founding fathers wished for a country that was based on religious principles but was not guided by them.

At any rate, the seperation is a fantasy and will always be a fantasy.

Please provide supporting evidence for this.

Thank you.