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Title: Stundie Joins The Lc Forum.
Description: JREF Forum named an award after me.


stundie - September 23, 2007 10:44 PM (GMT)
Hi Guys, (Sorry for the long opening thread!)

Thought I would join your forum and introduce myself. You may recognise the name from the JREF forum that has an award named in my honour! Lucky me!! A simple attack tactic which they use in order to discredit someone...as I'm sure some members here are aware ofÖ.

I originally started questioning the events of 9/11 a few years ago. I was very suspicious of Bush doing all he could to stop any investigation into the events of 9/11 but still thought Osama did it like everyone else.

What made me stand up and realise that it could be a conspiracy was watching Adam Curtis "The Power of Nightmares" in which he claims that after the downfall of Communism, Al-Qaeda was created as a bogey man to scare the populace into giving up their freedoms.

Of course, after noticing the comparisons of George Orwells 1984 and I started watching and reading as much as I could about 9/11. I watched Eugene Jarecki "Why We Fight!Ē read Noam Chomskys "Hegemony or Survival" and Zbigniew Brzezinski "The Grand Chessboard" which just confirmed that America foreign policy is geared up for war, because war is good business.

Then I watched Loose Change, since then I realise that some of the claims were wrong, but of course there is still plenty of information which was still valid and correct. I tried watching Screw Loose Change but gave up because it was so poorly made and built too many strawmen or didn't offer any answers to what Loose Change had brought up.

I thought I'd join the JREF forum (As I'm a huge fan of Randi!) to see any of this stuff had been debunked and get the facts.

Well what a joke that turned out to be!! lol

The 1st thing I noticed was the nastiness aimed at anyone who dare question the official story. After exposing, JREFs champion debunker Gravy (I didn't know who he was at the time!) as a liar and fabricator (Amongst others!), I ended up being banned...I contacted the administrators to find out why....but they never replied.

So I decided to join another forum, seeing as my questions wasn't being answered and joined the Screw Loose Change Forum. Another hilarity filled forum!!

It was much quieter when I joined, but after exposing more debunking lies of Defaultdotxbe (Might I add this guy is seriously deluded!), it eventually turned into a name calling exercise, which is fine by me as I have an acid tongue and can dish out the verbal abuse much better than I ever get from these debunkers. I was obviously upsetting some of these debunkers because I noticed that more user were coming on board to join in calling me a kook, twoofer etc etc from the JREF forum.

A poster came on the SLC to tell how he had been banned from the Loose Change forum, so I told him about how I got banned from the JREF forum. I didnít have a clue as to why! Someone called Orphia Nay emailed me to tell me why I had been banned. The admin thought I was a sock of "Pdoherty" (Again, I had no clue who he was at the time!) and had banned me. How they came to this conclusion??...I subsequently found out that I apparently had a similar IP address? (This was utter bullshit!) This was definitely a face saving exercise for the moderators in order to protect their beloved Gravy.

Anyway, I spoke with the admin who said they would lift the ban, but they never did. So I thought fine, Iím not going to beg to go back and of course, I still wasnít happy at being banned for no reason.

One of the things I used to do on the SLC was quote laughable errors made by debunkers in my signature. At one point, I had so many quotes, that the admin deleted them as others complained my signature was too big. Eventually, once I'd seen off the guys at SLC, a new batch of new members started signing up to call me crazy, woo etc etc. I thought it was very odd but after a bit of research, I found out that SLC members were going over to the JREF members in order to get answers to try and debunk my claims, of course more JREFers started to join in so that they could debunk me and my claims (HeyLeroy, Nicepants and Wildcat to name a few) and I've been there ever since.

Then the Stundie were started because of a spelling mistake I made, this was again in response to the fact that none of the JREFers at SLC could handle me and my arguments. (They really do struggle without the trolls at the JREF forum to support their ideology!) Admittedly, Iím human and make mistakes, sometimes spelling mistakes and even mistakes in my claims, but Iíve always apologised for them.

I complained directly to James Randi, as setting up the Stundie Awards was in direct confliction within their own rules. However, seeing as Iím not a member, they manage to carry it on as Iím still banned. Too be honest about it, Iím actually honoured they have the Stundie Awards at the JREF forum as all it does is confirm that they are clutching at straws to discredit me.

Iíve not posted on there for about 2 months as I started to tire of going around in circles with them or arguing over semantics, which debunkers love doing as it negates them having to address the issues. Or it ends up in a slanging match where I end up upsetting one of them. I never joined a forum to start up childish name calling, as Iím sure there plenty of such forums on the internet. I came on to have a serious debate.

After proving Cheney had lied about his movements on the morning of 9/11 and proving that Cheney is complicit in a cover up at the very least, debunkers started making excuses and changing there stories to keep with the official line. I realised that some people suffer from doublethink and will believe in what they want to believe regardless of the evidence presented, they are not bothered about the facts, they prefer to believe that 19 Arab hijackers crashed the plane into the towers, that Bush and Co really didnít have a clue about it, that Saddam was harbouring WMD and Terrorists because its more comfortable to believe than actually facing the fact that Bush and Co orchestrated or at least let this happen as a pretext for war. Its comforting for them to think that their leaders (Being super patriots!) really did everything possible to prevent the attacks, because the Neo Cons would never do such a thing, even though the EPA told GZ workers the air was safe to breath, even though it was not!

I realised that my posts were the main reason the SLC forum was still going, so I decided that I had enough of repeating myself and stating the obvious to a group of double thinkers and decided to stop posting there in the hope that the SLC forum dies, which it appears to be doing. Trolls die when you do not feed them, so I consider it a success.

Thats my journey so far!!

So Iíve decided to join the Loose Change forum. I did try and join twice before, but I think Hotmail was blocking the confirmation emails and I never got them....3rd time lucky hey!!

I look forward to discussing and meeting with you guys on here to discuss the facts regarding 9/11. Especially with any debunkers!


Stundie :D

Infadel - September 24, 2007 05:31 PM (GMT)
You sure love exclamation marks!!!!!

DarkDragonOfTruth - October 2, 2007 05:52 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Infadel @ Sep 24 2007, 12:31 PM)
You sure love exclamation marks!!!!!



If that is the best you could come up with, will this make you go away?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh no, I have offended the Infadel, he's the 7th grade spelling bee champ from the 17th century...how do you drive a spelling bee champ crazy...mispesll wrods, hwos taht.

Flipster3013 - October 2, 2007 07:26 PM (GMT)
Well this thread took a turn for the worse.

stundie - October 2, 2007 11:44 PM (GMT)
This thread can take a turn where ever it likes, it was just an introduction welcoming newcomers and thought I'd share my journey so far.


And yes I love exclamation marks!! So much so, that I've dumped the missus and am trying to legally marry an exclamation mark!

Problem is the exclamation mark is high maintence you know. :P

darion - October 3, 2007 06:04 PM (GMT)
Hi hi I know how you feel. Many post I have done in the past both in the sceptics area here in LC911 and others turn into a name calling match. Yet they cannot dispute my claims. To put it simply there are to many unanswered questions out there. Reguardless who is right and who is wrong, the current state of things is out of wack. Both truthers and debunkers alike can see how this nation and others are turning.

In the end all we do know is we where not told the full truth. And without full disclosure we still went to war with 2 countries and about to go to war with a 3rd. Majority of the detective work in Iraq and Iran where plain lies or name calling. Anyone can demonize someone else.

Well Seems I went on a rant here, sorry for that. I welcome you to LC forum and hope to talk with you some more.

Roxdog - October 3, 2007 06:23 PM (GMT)
Welcome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

stundie - October 4, 2007 06:48 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (darion @ Oct 3 2007, 01:04 PM)
Hi hi I know how you feel. Many post I have done in the past both in the sceptics area here in LC911 and others turn into a name calling match. Yet they cannot dispute my claims. To put it simply there are to many unanswered questions out there. Reguardless who is right and who is wrong, the current state of things is out of wack. Both truthers and debunkers alike can see how this nation and others are turning.

In the end all we do know is we where not told the full truth. And without full disclosure we still went to war with 2 countries and about to go to war with a 3rd. Majority of the detective work in Iraq and Iran where plain lies or name calling. Anyone can demonize someone else.

Well Seems I went on a rant here, sorry for that. I welcome you to LC forum and hope to talk with you some more.

Thanks for the Welcome Darion.

I agree with what you are saying. When the facts can be refuted, the name calling starts, look at the JREF forum, anytime a so call CTer starts a thread, asking for evidence, or facts or showing some facts, gets bombarded with from so called debunkers, who generate so much noise, that the OP is almost forgotten. This happened many times on the SLC forum, infact I don't think you'll find a single thread which sticks to the opening posts original point.

Your also right about the war too, 2 countries invaded for what?? Some call it a bad intelligence, but that to me is an excuse for a lie.

Anyways, I'm ranting now!! lol :P

I hope too catch you soon throughout these forums as well mate.

Take Care

Stundie

stundie - October 4, 2007 06:54 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Roxdog @ Oct 3 2007, 01:23 PM)
Welcome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WOW!! Its been a long time since I heard that name. How are you Roxdog? I hope your well and everything is good with you.

Thanks for the welcome. :D

Just a quick question?? Do you still hear anything from Lowball Path?? I believe he did one of your radio shows about the projection of debris during the collapse and was dishing the smack down on the SLC debunkers?

Catch you soon.

Stundie

slacker - December 17, 2007 06:04 AM (GMT)
wow, i have found the "stundie" for whom the "stundie award" was named after! I joined the JREF forums just a few days ago in order to to confront mark roberts as well, and it's amazing how quickly he showed his true colors. mark is one of the most mean-spirited, egotistical JAQoffs (to use their own sexually frustrated terminology) i have ever encountered on a forum. never once tried to address the substance of my posts, knew he could get away with personal insults, and called me "an open hydrant of ignorance" which then became someone else's signature.

of course, they pretty much only moved my posts to a "civility" section and never touched his or the other lemmings there, and the posts of mine they moved were simply ones where i typed "PERSONAL ATTACK" in response to their attacks! and MY post gets moved and not the personal attack i replied to?! absolutely ridiculous behavior over there.

in one of my most recent posts, i deconstructed the JREF 9-11 section with this: "The official story is your religion, Mark Roberts your high priest, and Totovader the loyal, robotic worker-drone." I am not exaggerating when i say that Totovader is the single most annoying internet personality i have ever had the displeasure of communicating with. this guy needs to get laid so badly i bet he can't walk into a room without the radio going haywire and the TV exploding.

if you're even able to see anything at JREF, search for the user "brasil" over there. i've finally broken through and gotten the tiniest bit of respect but i had to get "hazed" for the last 4 days or so to get there. i can see why they didn't like you: you sound like a likable person, who can be polite, but also dish out the insults on par with them.

would love to hear anything you can tell me about dealing with those uptight wanks, up to and including making a "get them a hooker" fund. if anyone would like to get their feet wet and back me up over there that would be cool too. i'm only active in one thread right now. don't even bother unless you are really smart, informed, and polite (or able to veil your insults in thick, wordy metaphors). i'm not a "conspiracy hack" myself, and although i've hardly read anything at the LC forums, chances are there's a lot of wacko stuff here that i wouldn't agree with.

anyway, nice to find you on here!


stundie - December 18, 2007 01:08 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (slacker @ Dec 17 2007, 01:04 AM)
wow, i have found the "stundie" for whom the "stundie award" was named after! 

Hi Slacker :)

Welcome to the forum.

As I explained above, The Stundie is the JREFs forum way of discrediting me, but as you'll discover for yourself, this is the easiest way for them to avoid debate.


QUOTE (slacker @ Dec 17 2007, 01:04 AM)

I joined the JREF forums just a few days ago in order to to confront mark roberts as well, and it's amazing how quickly he showed his true colors.  mark is one of the most mean-spirited, egotistical JAQoffs (to use their own sexually frustrated terminology) i have ever encountered on a forum.  never once tried to address the substance of my posts, knew he could get away with personal insults, and called me "an open hydrant of ignorance" which then became someone else's signature. 

And I hate to tell you this Slacker...Don't expect anything else! Lol

I didnít join the JREF forum to confront Gravy because I was unaware of whom he was at the time. I noticed that he was the main voice singing the official story, but I noticed how he would lie or spread misinformation. I called him out on it quite a few times and when I was about to put the final nail into the Gravy coffin, I get banned and I didn't even break the rules! lol

My last response with Gravy was him posting at the SLC forum calling me a liar, as he always does, the only problem is, I prove him wrong and instead of him apologising, itís left to his flock to protect him.
http://screwloosechange.xbehome.com/index.php?showtopic=1832

QUOTE (slacker @ Dec 17 2007, 01:04 AM)

of course, they pretty much only moved my posts to a "civility" section and never touched his or the other lemmings there, and the posts of mine they moved were simply ones where i typed "PERSONAL ATTACK" in response to their attacks!  and MY post gets moved and not the personal attack i replied to?!  absolutely ridiculous behavior over there.
Thatís because as you are aware, the moderators are severely biased.

They banned me without a single shred of evidence, then ignored my email requests to find out why I was banned. Even to this day, they are aware that I'm not a sock of Pdoherty (A banned member!) yet I still remained banned!

And if you can find out which rule I'm supposed to have broken and why Iím still banned, then you could let me know. Oh and if anyone says I have to prove to the moderators that Iím not Pdoherty, it would be nice for them to provide proof of why they think I am him in the 1st place.

QUOTE (slacker @ Dec 17 2007, 01:04 AM)

in one of my most recent posts, i deconstructed the JREF 9-11 section with this: "The official story is your religion, Mark Roberts your high priest, and Totovader the loyal, robotic worker-drone."  I am not exaggerating when i say that Totovader is the single most annoying internet personality i have ever had the displeasure of communicating with.  this guy needs to get laid so badly i bet he can't walk into a room without the radio going haywire and the TV exploding.
Mark Roberts isn't the high priest Slacker, he is god!!

The 9/11 Commission and NIST reports are a debunkers bibles!

I would say R Mackey, TAM, Gumboot etc etc are the priests.....

Totovader is just gullible follower...A mere sheep!! Although you can see it in his posts, he craves after the respect of the debunkers, hence the reason he is baiting you.

QUOTE (slacker @ Dec 17 2007, 01:04 AM)

if you're even able to see anything at JREF, search for the user "brasil" over there.  i've finally broken through and gotten the tiniest bit of respect but i had to get "hazed" for the last 4 days or so to get there. 
Oh, that bit of respect you got will soon be thrown out of the window as soon as you start giving them irrefutable facts and conclusions which show the official story to be wrong.

Either that or theyíll just ignore youÖ..

QUOTE (slacker @ Dec 17 2007, 01:04 AM)

i can see why they didn't like you:  you sound like a likable person, who can be polite, but also dish out the insults on par with them.

Thanks. I was nothing but nice over at the JREF forum, however my best work was over at the Screw Loose Change forum.

I think I manage to upset just about every debunker at some point during my time over there by laughing at how pathetic the arguments were.

HeyLeroy, WildCat, Quad, defaultdxotbe, MG1962, Nicepants and Sgt Powers were the butt of many of a laugh I had at their expense. They used to run across to the JREF forum for advice on how to debunk me, which in most cases they failed at miserably.

Hence we have The Stundies Awards!

Iím more interested in civil debate than name calling and noticed I was the centre of attention from the debunkers at SLC. I was feeding the trolls who lurked their, so I stopped posting and since Iíve not posted, the forum is slowly dying!!

QUOTE (slacker @ Dec 17 2007, 01:04 AM)

would love to hear anything you can tell me about dealing with those uptight wanks, up to and including making a "get them a hooker" fund. 
I would only donate if its a "Get them a hooker whose HIV+"ÖJoke of course, before debunkers get all mad and start suggesting that I condone they die of AIDS!!

As for dealing with them, I was always respectful (From what I remember!) at the JREF forum, but since I joined the SLC (Screw Loose Change) forum, Iíve always treated them as the worldís biggest joke! I tried to be civil when I 1st joined the SLC forum, but it soon appeared these guys were no different to JREF crew. So after realising all they wanted to do was name call and ignore the facts, I decided to join in and start slating the debunkers and play them at their own game. As you can guess, they didnít like it much, but there was no moderation or censorship at the SLC forum, so they were all fair game.

I was aways outnumbered, but never outgunned.

QUOTE (slacker @ Dec 17 2007, 01:04 AM)

if anyone would like to get their feet wet and back me up over there that would be cool too.  i'm only active in one thread right now.  don't even bother unless you are really smart, informed, and polite (or able to veil your insults in thick, wordy metaphors).  i'm not a "conspiracy hack" myself, and although i've hardly read anything at the LC forums, chances are there's a lot of wacko stuff here that i wouldn't agree with. 

I am more than willing to help you out regarding any debate.

I'm unable to post on there because of the ban so I can't help you on the JREF forum, but I'm more than willing to help you from over here. I'm not a conspiracy hack and would never have considered myself a CTer until the label was projected onto me by JREF and SLC debunkers.

But hey, Iíve been call much worse than this, so itís water off a ducks back!

QUOTE (slacker @ Dec 17 2007, 01:04 AM)
anyway, nice to find you on here!

And nice to see you here too Slacker and I hope you enjoy the forum.

Cheers

Stundie

William Rea - January 4, 2008 06:30 PM (GMT)
Hi Stundie,

I thought you had always been a member here on LC?

You probably already know the contempt I have for JREF and SLC so I will try not to reiterate that here but I just wanted to add a couple of things to your post.

The Stundie award isn't about discrediting you, you just happened to be the most convenient target name.

You can learn a lot about the JREF mentality by observing their obsessions.

Awards are a key obsession, I have even seen the creation of an "I was banned at LC" award! The constant need for self assurance rooted in a lack of confidence is endemic in the whole forum and not just through the "awards".

The "Comic Strip a Conspiracy" thread is one big self assuring group hug based upon the type of schoolyard bullying mentality that most of us grew out of many years ago. That can easily be seen by observing the reaction when you post a Comic Strip that is contrary to the accepted JREF worldview. The tribal reaction is a wonder to behold, like the Borg they become one when presented with it.

Amongst the detritus that is the JREF CT Forum The Stundie award is the dumbest and most negative thing I have seen. What is behind this obsession? It now seems so embedded in the collective conciousness of the JREF that they cannot see how faulty it is when placed alongside the esteem that they hold themselves in. I had many exchanges of posts about the Ad Hominem nature of The Stundies.

Before I was banned over there I noticed the Moderation started to insist that I amend my posts so that they specifically only mentioned the JREF CT Forum. They are aware of the damage that the CT Forum is doing to the JREF reputation but seem powerless to change it other than to remove those elements that make it difficult for them to just go with the flow.

I have to ask if this is the behaviour pattern you would expect from a forum that
1) Is confident about it's position on a subject
2) takes itself as seriously as JREF does
I don't think so.

stundie - January 10, 2008 08:27 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (William Rea @ Jan 4 2008, 01:30 PM)
Hi Stundie,

I thought you had always been a member here on LC?

Hi William,

How are you? I hope your well! :)

I did try joining a few times sometime ago, but I think my filters were blocking the confirmation mail.
QUOTE (William Rea @ Jan 4 2008, 01:30 PM)

You probably already know the contempt I have for JREF and SLC so I will try not to reiterate that here but I just wanted to add a couple of things to your post.

The Stundie award isn't about discrediting you, you just happened to be the most convenient target name.

You are correct but the very 1st Stundie Awards were used as a tool for discrediting me, it was a poll to see which one of my quotes were the dumbest.

However, it's now all changed. They stop using my quotes after I complained directly to James Randi but they changed the rules, so that any CTer can be nominated and I was told that I can't ever be nominated for a stundie now.
QUOTE (William Rea @ Jan 4 2008, 01:30 PM)

You can learn a lot about the JREF mentality by observing their obsessions.

Very true.

QUOTE (William Rea @ Jan 4 2008, 01:30 PM)

Awards are a key obsession, I have even seen the creation of an "I was banned at LC" award! The constant need for self assurance rooted in a lack of confidence  is endemic in the whole forum and not just through the "awards".

Only over at the JREF forum would you find this mentality! lol
QUOTE (William Rea @ Jan 4 2008, 01:30 PM)

The "Comic Strip a Conspiracy" thread is one big self assuring group hug based upon the type of schoolyard bullying mentality that most of us grew out of many years ago. That can easily be seen by observing the reaction when you post a Comic Strip that is contrary to the accepted JREF worldview. The tribal reaction is a wonder to behold, like the Borg they become one when presented with it.

Its nothing more than groupthink....

It was the reason I joined the forum, as I was surprised at how a critical thinker such as Randi would allow this type of groupthink to happen in his name. It appears that it only happens on the CTer forum as opposing views seem to be apparant in other threads.

However, I found out since that Randi doesn't frequent the forum very much, so I doubt he gives 2 shits about it in reality, it's a money maker for him.
QUOTE (William Rea @ Jan 4 2008, 01:30 PM)

Amongst the detritus that is the JREF CT Forum The Stundie award is the dumbest and most negative thing I have seen. What is behind this obsession? It now seems so embedded in the collective conciousness of the JREF that they cannot see how faulty it is when placed alongside the esteem that they hold themselves in. I had many exchanges of posts about the Ad Hominem nature of The Stundies.

I remember seeing some of your exchanges and you are correct, the awards are seriously dumb. Its a simple way of discrediting the messenger because thats what happens over at the JREF forum day in, day out as I'm sure you are aware.

You are arguing against groupthink, so they will never see it your way.

QUOTE (William Rea @ Jan 4 2008, 01:30 PM)

Before I was banned over there I noticed the Moderation started to insist that I amend my posts so that they specifically only mentioned the JREF CT Forum. They are aware of the damage that the CT Forum is doing to the JREF reputation but seem powerless to change it other than to remove those elements that make it difficult for them to just go with the flow.

The moderators are so biased it's unbelieveable.

The problem is that they have Forum Donors (Gravy, Pomeroo, TAM etc etc!) who seem to able to say whatever they like without any consequences. Occasionally, they may get a warning but nothing more than that, but if a so called CTer does any thing like that, they might get a couple of warnings if they are lucky, followed by a ban.

I think the moderators have to tolerate it because, you never bite the hand that feeds you, so if they are donors, they can break the rules as long as they pay their membership.

Gregory Ulrich recently pointed this out to a moderator (Chillzero I think?) over at the JREF forum, The moderator gave somone called Hewia a telling off for using personal attacks, even though he had been the subject of these attacks himself and was only defending himself. I noticed that when Gregory pointed it out to the Mods, another moderator called Darat came and removed the threads, including Gregorys complaint.
QUOTE (William Rea @ Jan 4 2008, 01:30 PM)

I have to ask if this is the behaviour pattern you would expect from a forum that
1) Is confident about it's position on a subject
2) takes itself as seriously as JREF does
I don't think so.

I couldn't agree with you more.

When I joined JREF, I was respectful in the few posts I made, it was the same at SLC too, but it soon became apparent that thier was no convincing some people and it appeared that all they wanted to do was slag me off and debunk nothing in reality.

I ignored it at 1st, but then I thought fuck it, if I can't get a serious debate out of any of them, I'll just rip the piss out of them and give them a better taste of their own lyrics by smashing them down. It was quite funny as I manage to piss off just about every trash talking debunker at SLC, especially HeyLeroy & Wildcat! (Or Stalkerboy and Wildpussy as I often referred to them as! lol) I also liked the fact everything went uncensored, so I could really goto town on them, which I hate to admit, I took every pleasure in doing so. hahahahaha!!! :lol:

It was very childish of me and nobody is impressed by personal attacks, plus it doesn't add to my credibility but when you are met with an incredible wall of stupidness, sometimes you have play stupid with them, otherwise it can get fustrating.

I like your calm and collective tactics and I wish I had your patience William Rea. I see you post occasionally over at SLC but as you have witnessed, its only has the worst and stupidest of debunkers on their. You may get the odd intelligent JREF come over and make a post, but they soon scramble once they have been shot down.

After asking the debunkers for over 8 months at the SLC forum to provide any proof to suggest that Mineta was mistaken with his timeline in his statement to the commission and providing the proof that Cheney knew about AA77 and niether him or the USSS warned the Pentagon of the attack, I gave up on them.

All I got from them was a "So what??" attitude, even though I had proven a coverup at the very least and complicity at the worse. :o

It appears that they do not really care about the lives lost on 9/11. So I do not care for them anymore, hence the reason I stopped posting, plus all I was doing was troll feeding.

Good Luck and nice to catch you again.

Stundie :D




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