Can anyone establish how, precisely, the Naval Command Center inside the D-ring of the Pengaton was destroyed?


http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...?showtopic=8069

About ten months after the Navy began using Iridium, the U.S. Navy Captain,
Gerald F. DeConto, was killed on September 11th when Flight 77 destroyed the
U.S. Navy Command Center on the first floor of Quadrant One in the Pentagon.

At the moment of his death, duty officer Captain DeConto was in direct
communication with the Secretary of the Navy coordinating the Navy’s response
to the earlier attacks on the World Trade Center. If the two men communicated
through the Iridium 66 satellites, their planned response would be monitored by
Iridium agents on the Pentagon's Defense Information Services Network.f
www.geralddeconto5k.com/DeConto5k.pdf.

I'll give you a way you can answer. Get an arial view of the pentagon with a list of which rings were which.

ETA - oh hell....here's a map for you...



Got your answer now?

ETA? did I miss that? :lol:

Am I still waiting? :lol:

ETA - edited to add.

Thanks for the graphic.

Thus either the Naval Command Center, located in the D ring, received a "direct hit" from the plane/airborne object -- or, there were additional causes of the massive destruction there, and the defense intelligence agency.

It would appear that offices and people in the E ring, though CLOSER to the original impact site, fared better.

Some of the worst damage appeared to be in C ring. What offices were adjacent to the round hole (often called "exit hole or punchout hole") on A-E drive?

Does anyone have a timeline of the renovation of Wedge One -- particularly,
what tenants and offices were moved out, where they went, and most importantly,
what Army/Navy/USAF etc tenants were moved BACK into Wedge One offices, and their precise locations?

It would appear that the path of destruction of the flying object seen at Pentagon and/or other cause led to deaths that were not accidental.

This could only happen if certain offices (Naval Command Center, office of Naval intel, Defense Intelligence Agency, army personnel, Army auditing) were placed in a certain triangular area of rings E, D, and C.

Air Force Lt. Col. Marc Abshire, 40, a speechwriter for Air Force Secretary James Roche, was working on several speeches this morning when he felt the blast of the explosion at the Pentagon. His office is on the D ring, near the eighth corridor , he said. "It shot me back in my chair. There was a huge blast. I could feel the air shock wave of it," Abshire said. "I didn't know exactly what it was. It didn't rumble. It was more of a direct smack. I said, 'This isn't right. Something's wrong here.'" "We all went out in the hallway. People were yelling 'Evacuate! Evacuate!' And we found ourselves on the lawn and looking back on our building. It was very much a surrealistic sort of experience. It's just definitely not right to see smoke coming out of the Pentagon. It was a very strange sight to see."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro...p01/attack.html

Naval Command Center lost its entire chain of command when Pentagon was attacked.

how would that affect their ability to track events of 9/11? had they lived, what narrative might have emerged?>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?p...A2845-2002Jan18

I know, I was just giving you a hard time. :lol:

ETA - Estimated Time of Arrival

were any parts of aircraft, or jet fuel, recovered from the Naval Command (and office of naval intel) in the D ring?

I have not seen any documentation of that.

whether or not a plane impacted the E ring outer facade, or not, it is important for every single area of Pentagon damage to find survivors, witnesses and examine forensic evidence, and contemporay news accounts.

my conversations with a naval affairs journalist indicate that deaths and fire in Naval Command were NOT due to any aircraft crashes.

thus the precise cause of damage and death remains unknown, independent of lawn/facade events.

I find it very hard to follow where you are going with this...

At first you tought the Naval Command was effectively destroyed in the B ring (where obviously no plane has crashed.)

We found it was probably the report that was most surely wrong on how they assigned letters to the rings, they simply had a-b-c-d-e backward...

Now that we have found the spoken-of Naval Command damage NOT to be in the B-ring but in the D (and/or E) ring, it is directly where the plane allegedly hit.

But your posts still hints of shady journalism and no plane impact?

Can you clarify whats going on here?

Thank you.

B ring issue and damage is separate. So far damage in B ring reported by Wash.Post remains as stated for the record.

It is unlikely that the major involved got the ring numbering backward, since the original article cites "innermost A ring" as location of the meeting.

leaving that...

Naval Command Center was in D ring. this was one full ring away from the E ring entrance (which permitted only 14 ft object channelled) --

there has been no forensics done to show that the Naval Command center was destroyed by the plane impact (if such) -- it has only been implied.

my question remains: is there any evidence connecting directly the plane/fuel with the Naval Command Center destruction>>?

btw -- I had first thought that Naval Command was destroyed by the plane and jet fuel. Then, some of the survivor accounts struck me as odd. I am less sure.

It seems obvious enough, right? Plane smacks into E ring, enters through 14 ft hole, fuel splashes out of wings, some carries into buildings, most ends up on lawn... but shredded plane (aluminum, seats, humans, landing gear) continues on... ricochets off pillars and office space... through a couple buildings... and takes out Naval Command.

at least that was my working assumption.

If anyone can provide links to demonstrate that it was actually the plane debris and /or jet fuel that caused the specific destruction of Naval Command, it would be much appreciated.

i already have firm grasp on the 'implied' part - i'm looking for more hard evidence.

here is a full report of the fire depts response --

see the final pages 210-215 for maps of Pentagon damage penetration.

http://www.arlingtonva.us/departments/Fire...fter_report.pdf

whereas the Naval Command Center, being more or less in a direct line behind the E ring alleged "plane impact" site -- MIGHT have been damaged by a south-side or north-side approach pattern (who knows, exactly, what damage a 757 would cause?) --

the C ring damage, which is North of the "entry hole" -- would NOT be consistent with a north-side entrance hole.

Therefore, if you entertain the notion that some, or much, or all of the Pentagon damage was caused by incendiary devices, and not by a plane, then in order to simulate the plane damage path you MUST have a south-side of Citgo flight path.

You MUST have poles down.

You MUST have an angled impact.

otherwise, the trajectory of the impact and fires DOES NOT create the proper damage pattern, extending THROUGH the D ring and into the C ring.

Therefore, if the Lagasse & Brooks eyewitnesses who saw a plane IMPACT the building from a north-side approach are CORRECT, the damage INSIDE the building doesn't follow logically from the ASCE building report -- damage would be more perpendicular rather than angular.

For the government's story to be correct, it would HAVE to back up the south-side impact story, and undermine a north-side (or flyover) --- otherwise, the damage to interior is hard to explain.

For those who invoke a plane impact PLUS explosive devices -- at some point, the use of pinpoint explosive devices as the cause of death.damage.fire makes the plane part of the story less and less important-- a 'red herring' if you will.

If any one is able to make the case that all damage observed at Pentagon after 9:30am was due entirely to a crashed 75 7, and subsequent fires caused by the impact, please do. I've tried, but come up short.

The office of Naval Intelligence, commanded by Geraldo De Conto, was destroyed utterly on the morning of 9/11/01. The Naval Command Center, in the D ring, houses part of the office of Naval Intelligence. The ONI also has facilities at Suitland MD, and elsewhere. On the morning of 9/11, the ONI was in the midst of trying to build an intelligence picture of what was happening that day -- when suddenly, BOOM! They too, were hit.

The lawsuit brought by families against airlines regarding their failures/responsibility for Angie Houtz's death may shed some light on the cause of her death.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/08/...in3244411.shtml

The only way Julie Shontere sees and hears her daughter Angie Houtz anymore is by playing a videotape over and over again, reports CBS News Correspondent Thalia Assuras.

"I think we need to focus on our community, getting out and impacting people one by one," Houtz says on a video.

Angie Houtz was active in her church and worked at the Pentagon in Naval Intelligence, investigating terrorist attacks.

"If a mother was to pick a place to work, I would have thought that the middle ring in the Pentagon would have been one of the safest places in America," Shontere said.

But on September 11, 2001, Houtz was among the 125 people killed when an American Airlines flight exploded into the pentagon, and her mother is determined to hold the airlines and airline security firms responsible.

"I do it to honor Angie," Shontere said. "She was part of the intelligence community, and almost the irony that that's what took her life has prompted me to pursue answers in the name of what I believe she would want to know."

Shontere is one of a handful of victim's families who opted not to accept compensation from a fund set up by the government, the Victim's Compensation Fund, or VCF. But to receive that money, they had to had to agree not to sue the airlines.

"The Victims Compensation Fund wasn't looking for answers," Shontere said. "It wasn't looking for accountability. What it did is it effectively bailed the airlines out, with taxpayer's money. And I wasn't comfortable with that."

Originally 95 families decided to sue. So far half have settled, leaving only 41 still going to court. The Shonteres' attorney claims the suit will reveal new evidence of airline negligence.

"The terrorists took the weakest link and took advantage of it," said Keith Franz, an attorney at Azrael, Gann and Franz. "But if that link had been strengthened before 911 then maybe this entire event would have been avoided."

American Airlines declined an interview but offered a statement, saying: "... we empathize with all families who lost loved ones ... 98 percent of the cases have been settled privately or through the VCF. American is committed to continue working with the families toward settlement."

When Assuras asked how much she thought about settling, Shontere replied, "My intention is to get answers and settling doesn't answer those questions."

"You think Angie would have wanted you to take this course?" Assuras asked.

"She cared so much about making things better," Shontere replied. "The answers would have been necessary for Angie."

Trials start in September and the Shonteres expect to be third in line.

Was Naval Command and the CNO-IP "set up" to be killed on 9/11?

Did the the Pentagon investigation determine the CAUSE of the deaths of the Naval Command center personnel, their air traffic control stations, communications equip, etc which was destroyed..etc

I have seen many reports saying that they were killed WHEN the plane crashed into the Pentagon, but i have not seen reports confirming that the plane crash was the CAUSE of their deaths.

read on....

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context...a848navycommand


Personnel in the Navy Command Center at the Pentagon, which is located on the first floor of the building’s southwest face, learn of the attack on the WTC from television reports. The center is tasked with constantly monitoring global current events and also monitoring the latest status of all US Naval assets around the world. Its employees have to keep Navy leaders in Washington up to date on what is happening in the world as it directly relates to Navy operations and other security or military issues. Admiral Timothy Keating, who is the Navy’s director of operations in the Pentagon, describes it as a “nerve center.” Forty to 50 people man it constantly, 24 hours every day. Located within the center is the Chief of Naval Operations Intelligence Plot (CNO-IP), a small, highly secretive intelligence unit that constantly monitors geopolitical developments and military movements that could threaten American forces. The Navy Command Center has just been renovated, and its dozens of employees have been moving in during the past month....

Those who arrive at the center include Admiral Vern Clark, the chief of naval operations; Admiral William Fallon, the vice chief of naval operations; Gordon England, the secretary of the Navy; and Rear Admiral Jeffrey Hathaway of the US Coast Guard, who is currently in charge of Navy Anti-Terrorism Force Protection.

Did forensic work establish that a 757 impact was responsible for all damage, fire, and death in D ring Naval Command Center?

I am aware that it is conventionally assumed that a plane struck and/or penetrated Pentagon on 9/11 -- but can it be established that this was the cause of Naval Command Center destruction?

Analogy -- a lifelong smoker has a heart attack, a few minutes after being shot. what caused his death?

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...&#entry14607788


"We tried to get to them, Commander," Lt. Megan Humbert, 28, said later, when Radi found her and a few others, dazed in the parking lot. "We tried." Her uniform was seared. Other sailors' white jumpers were scorched black.

Amid the chaos, many Pentagon workers fled the disaster zone, heading home. But Radi and other senior staff immediately went to work reconstituting the intelligence unit at the nearby Navy Annex.

Humbert,that day's watch officer, and other young survivors relocated to the annex. Nobody had relieved them. They were still on watch.

"Where'd I put my cell phone? Where is it?" Marilyn Pontell, Darin's mother, grew frantic looking for her purse. Her Nokia was chiming "Take Me Out to the Ball Game."

Marilyn would be sick if she missed that call. Maybe it was news about her son. Maybe it was Darin himself.

Two days later, Marilyn and Gary Pontell still hoped that their youngest boy had been spared. Gathered at Darin and Devora's apartment in Gaithersburg on Thursday afternoon, they could barely process the idea that he was dead. There were still wedding presents piled in a corner on the carpet.

Navy officials gave garbled reports: One person said someone who looked like Darin walked from the scene. Somebody else claimed he was working far away, in the A-Ring. And officials said they couldn't find his Acura Integra in the Pentagon lot . . .

The Nokia sang again, then silence. Too late. When she finally got to the phone, Marilyn scrolled through the menu. One missed call: 1:57 p.m. No message. But the incoming number was clearly identified. It was Darin's.

My God, maybe he was alive.

For five more days, they waited. On Sept. 18, the Navy informed the Pontells that Darin's body had been positively identified. His cell phone was never returned to the family. They presume it was never found. Perhaps the flip-phone had somehow dialed Marilyn's number when the rubble shifted. But . . . Didn't all cell phones have to be turned off upon entry to the CNO-IP?

The FBI offered a one-word explanation for that call: "anomaly."

so Darin Pontell has a very odd day.

1) he parks his car somewhere wierd -- not in the regular parking lot

2) he gets killed in a 9:37 am plane strike.

3) at 1:57pm, SOMEONE calls his mom from HIS PHONE.

4) he is never seen again. neither is his phone. no word about the car....

at 1:57pm on September 13, SOMEONE calls his mom from HIS PHONE.

Darin Pontell,Lt-Cdr Vince Tolbert and the others in CNO-Intelligence Plot were working on information concerning the third plane so the information could be fed to the naval command.

I will always wonder if they discovered something they were not supposed to see.

Darrell Pontell called his parents, or at least his phone did, after 1:30pm.

He was supposedly dead much earlier than that, when Naval Command Center was destroyed.

Naval Command, and esp Naval Intel (ONI) was busy trying to find out WHO was involved in 9/11, WHAT was happening, and getting their own NAVY planes via NAVY ATC and C&C orders... when, at 9:30, 9:32, or 9:37, they were destroyed nearly to a man (43/44 killed)

Why ONI? Were they more apt at terrorism investigation than all the other intelligence agencies?

Official diagram found within the new official book Pentagon 9/11 - Publisher: Defense Dept., Office of the Secretary, Historical Office

ONI is the oldest arm of intelligence gathering.

it has a proud independent tradition. Rumsfeld was not in control of it.

ONI -- if left undisturbed -- may have put together a DIFFERENT story about what was happening on 9/11/01 -- in terms of US military assets, what they were doing, who was rogue, etc, bin laden (?) involvement.

Think of ONI as an institutional John O'Neill -- a group of experts in what they do, who were prevented from speaking after 9/11 -- allowing the "spin" of the story to follow the Richard Clarke & george tenet leak-fest of "we think it's alquada...alqada...alqada..."


ONI was NOT necessarily better at "terrorism" investigation per se -- but they were tasked with putting together an analysis of "what was happening around the world" --

additionally, Capt Gerald DeConto, in the Naval Command, was actively working to engage the "enemy" on 9/11/01 when he was unexpectedly killed.

Is domestic intelligence and operations even in their perview? Also, Rumsfeld was in charge of the entire DoD and military apparatus, so why wouldn't he be in control of ONI?

Put together a different story based on what? What additional evidence could they possibly have had that would lead them to a different conclusion?

As for being prevented from speaking, there are many other personell in the ONI are there not? They wouldn't even be involved in any sort of investigation at Naval Command beyond where are our ships and is this the first shot of an attack by another nation-state.

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't people across the country in NORAD and other places also actively working to engage the enemy?

to say that "NORAD" was actively engaging the enemy on 9/11/01 is to re-write history.

Whereas elements of NORAD may have been trying their damnedest to do that, the 'picture' that emerges is one of deliberate slow-walk of the process -- with a cover story of 'fog of war'

Naval Command has/had the ability to build a real-time intelligence picture.
it isnt that Naval Command or ONI could have 'stopped' the 9/11 attacks -- it's a matter of controlling the spin/outcome of the attacks. Clearly, no one wanted a potential maverick intel operation presenting a non-Official story....

The destruction of Naval Command, like that of civilian auditors, broadcasts a 50,000-watt message to EVERYONE in armed forces -- about what to look into, what not to, etc.

Naval Intel is 'historically independent' -- not that it is fully free of SecDef influence, but they ain't bootlickers doing rummy's laundry. ALthough chief of naval ops (CNO) Admiral Vern Clark escaped being blown up on 9/11 (like Larry Silverstein, he was out of the office) -- Naval command otherwise was completely destroyed.

after such an event, who would speak out? who would they speak to? who would listen?

The Navy Command Center and especially the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) and the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) have always been greatly separated from the CIA and other intelligence agencies and often have been at direct odds with the CIA and their methods and illegal covert activities. They actually have far superior intelligence gathering abilities to the CIA and jealously guard their methods and assets. This 9-11 event would definitely be classified as an illegal covert activity and these agencies were targeted because their reaction to the attack on the WTC could be easily predicted. These agencies were decimated (ONI 43 out of 44 killed) or severely damaged and the message was sent out to all intelligence agencies and military units feeling all too patriotic, to not deviate from Bush Regime objectives or receive more of the same. Add to this the absolute necessity of protecting the final destinations of the missing $2.3 Trillion and we can understand the reasoning behind grouping an auditing team in with military intelligence departments, and all of them in a dusty hazardous under-construction area of the Pentagon. A future target area for explosives and destruction and death. Right through the ONI and DIA and Navy Command centers. :rolleyes:

Another Bush lie: the victims of Pentagon attack "were almost all civilian construction workers still working on remodeling..."
No construction workers listed among the victims. - Pentagon Victims selected?

Official diagram found within the new official book Pentagon 9/11 - Publisher: Defense Dept., Office of the Secretary, Historical Office

They were attempting to at least.

Far be it from me to judge the fog of war. A slow response can only be expected with a multi-directional surprise attack like this. I would say that their response was far from deliberately slow. They were just trying to do their job and save lives.

Again that's predicated on the assumption that ONI would've had access to extra information to base their conclusions on and I just do not see how that is the case.

On the contrary, most members of the armed forces understand this was a savage attack on innocent people and not some warning to follow the official story.

What would they speak out about? Again you're assuming they would've come to different conclusions. There job at most was to defend against the attack, not find out who was behind it. As for ONI again they would've had no other information than what the other intelligence agencies got so whose to say they would've reached a different conclusion.

Hi Jack:

I have read your entire thread and have returned to the OP to offer my views.

First of all, let’s establish the fact that the first floor between the outer E-Ring wall and rear C-Ring wall is all contained under one roof with the Navy Operations Center positioned against the rear C-Ring Wall:

http://911research.com/sept11/victims/docs...gon_victims.jpg

The distance from the outer E-Ring Wall to the rear C-Ring Wall is 220 feet ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Terral03/columns.jpg ) with the Navy Operations Center extending 140 feet from the rear C-Ring wall to take up practically all of the space from the C and D-Rings. In fact, if we look more carefully at the Columns Diagram . . .



. . . we can see the orange rectangle where an explosion took place just inside the Navy Operations Center to blow out the concrete slab.



The left picture shows where the 21-inch concrete column was blown to smithereens by a massive explosion near the location where the concrete slab is missing just inside the Navy Operations Center. The right-hand picture shows the rear C-Ring wall blown out cleanly along the same 45-degree trajectory heading ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Ter...eTrajectory.jpg ) from a straight line extending through our five downed light poles and the outer Route 27 Cloverleaf from where this attack was initiated. Take a look at a list of possible accessories the DoD had available to include with their 1000-pound warhead aboard their Missile for this Pentagon Attack.

http://www.bombsecurity.com/CABO/caboweap3.html

The DoD attacked the Navy Operations Center at 9:31:39 AM with a Missile Strike on Wedge One Column Line (CL) 14 on a 45-degree trajectory flight path to inflict the maximum number of casualties among the Navy Operations Personnel, civilian accountants, bookkeepers, audit managers and budget analysts ( http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20011216pentagonp4.asp ). They used at least two ‘L-Pill’ Incendiary Devices intended to detonate just inside and at the rear of the Navy Operations Center to inflict the most damage in these key locations. The victims were placed along the 45-degree trajectory line, between CL 13 and CL 15, because this was the optimum location for sanitizing the 2.3 Trillion Dollar ( http://911research.com/sept11/trillions.html ) Problems, and because this was the location of the CL 11 Control Joint ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Ter...DEngineCL9a.jpg ) targeted to drop the E-Ring roof and simulate a 100-Ton Jetliner crash. The Missile made final approach to the Pentagon under the cover of a Large 9:31:39 AM Decoy Flyover Plane to pierce the E-Ring wall and detonate just inside the building throwing the nose section debris AND the L-Pill incendiary devices forward along the same 45-degree trajectory path, until the first Pill detonated just inside the Navy Operations Center. The remaining debris and final L-Pill device slammed against the rear C-Ring wall for the final explosion that created the neat 9-feet diameter exit hole.

The Navy Operations Center was targeted for destruction, because the Navy is notorious for refusing to bow to the powers-that-be, as plans were in the works to launch Navy Jets in response to the WTC attacks. Navy Intelligence was NOT involved with these 9/11 Inside Job Attacks and the real DoD bad guys had to strike the Navy Operations Center as part of their Inside Job Cover-Up Operation. You wrote:

I fail to see how any of this means anything, because the Navy Operations Center and Navy Personnel were targeted for destruction long before these attacks began on 9/11. This was a precision tactical strike using a precision Missile with a conventional warhead using L-Pill incendiary devices to maximize Navy and Civilian causalities leaving behind the minimum amount of evidence. Surely you realize this 45-degree trajectory flight path and accumulated damage has NOTHING to do with any 100-Ton Jetliner, as there is NO EVIDENCE for any Jumbo Jet crashing anywhere near the Pentagon on 9/11 or any other day. The DoD anticipated many Navy and Civilian casualties from the original 9:32 AM attack, which means the dead and dying would litter the immediate impact area where Navy first responders would rush to the scene. The DoD then sent the radio-controlled retrofitted A-3 Jet to make an attack run on CL 11 in a vain attempt to bring the E-Ring Roof down and cover all the victims up in their simulated Flight 77 crash.



The initial 9:31:39 AM Missile detonated just inside CL 14 on a 45-degree angle extending to our left to the rear C-Ring wall, while the 9:37 AM A-3 Jet attack was more of a 90-degree attack using the North Of Citgo Flight Path ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Ter...melineChart.jpg = in blue) that transformed the original ‘inside-the-building fires’ ( http://blog.lege.net/content/Seven_Hours_in_September.pdf ) into a 300-feet Wide Fiery Inferno ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Ter...oreAndAfter.jpg ).



The left-hand diagram shows initial damage along the 45-degree angle flight path between the E-Ring entry hole and the C-Ring exit hole with the six missing columns (directly right of “Missile Damage Follows 45 Degree . . .”) denoting the location of the depressed concrete slab just inside the Navy Operations Center. However, the right-hand diagram shows how most of that damage was created during the 9:36:27 AM A-3 Jet attack where at least one Pratt and Whitney engine and Jet debris were thrown into the mix. There is no flight path calculations that can explain the massive destruction taking place all the way over to CL 1 at the very northern end of the Wedge One cross-wall indicating that ALL those large X columns were taken out by Controlled Demolition during the 9:42 AM to 10:15 AM massive explosions part of my Pentagon Timeline here ( http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...showtopic=16510 ). The fact is that Controlled Demolition of these columns played NO ROLE in dropping the E-Ring roof at all, as these columns are located up to 100 feet away from the CL 11 Control Joint. This information points to the fact that these explosions and subsequent damage can very well be connected to further assassination of Pentagon Personnel. Carol Painter, the President of Public Action Incorporated characterizes the Pentagon Fire as a “Sixty Hour Witness Assassination” here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060903234731/...01/278515.shtml

The Navy Operations Center is located in the D-Ring and C-Ring areas beginning only about 80-feet from the outer E-Ring wall and extending all the way back AE Drive. The Navy Operations Center received a ‘direct hit’ from a DoD launched Missile Strike that included at least two L-Pill Incendiary Devices timed to detonate with maximum efficiency. The time from the Missile passing through the Outer Route 27 Clover leaf, until the final L-Pill Incendiary device exploded near the rear C-Ring wall, was just under one second to make all the explosions appear simultaneous as a single big “Boom” to the human ear.

big >> http://911research.com/sept11/victims/docs...gon_victims.jpg

Preston did a good job in presenting this diagram on Page 2 of your thread. We know all the evidence is tainted, because no 100-Ton Jetliner crashed here. Any Flight Data Recorders and Flight 77 victim DNA was planted by the DoD part of their ongoing Disinformation/Cover-Up Campaign that started before these 9/11 attacks were even carried out. The bad guys think we are stupid and will not notice the missing 60 tons of high grade aluminum, massive 6-ton Rolls-Royce Engines, wing sections, tail section and everything else part of a real 100-Ton Jetliner. I am ready to line all the bad guys up and remove all their heads just for playing us as their fools, because their Cover Story is not nearly swift enough to fool the average bear or park ranger . . .

GL,

Terral

wow - -i had not seen that photo with the slab deflected upward.

can it be determined if that was the BASEMENT slab or the 2nd story slab?

That's the 2nd floor slab. Check the building performance report it's supposed to be from an upwar deflection of the plane or some part os it. There's also a spot (opening through roof) where sunlight shines is, meaning somehow a hole through this AND the roof above the 2nd floor (it's in the low roof area between rings). I've never been able to fugure that out.

ASCE report dont try to explain it in any way. Just call it "impact damage"

"There were two primary areas where beams and slabs of the
second floor were damaged by impact: (1) in an area bounded
approximately by column lines A, 5, B, and 11 (figure 5.25) and
(2) in an area bounded approximately by column lines E, 5,H,and
7 (figure 5.26).

The most severe damage was in the second of these
areas, where the second-floor slab was breached and pushed
upward approximately 18 in. (figure 5.27)."
(p.34)

thanks.

now, let's think... the official story (and the Russ Pickering variant) explain Pentagon damage timing, and pattern, as being wholly done by one 757, namely, AA77.

I am not fully convinced that the plane was a solo-actor, or if you will, the plane was a "Lone Gunman"

What kind of 757 impact both shreds itself on impact against Pentagon wall to 'silver dollar sized fragments", and at the same time penetrates the same Pentagon wall like a bunker buster?

which is it, confetti plane or bunker-buster plane? is it both? how?

------------
what kind of 757 impact smashes along a near-horizontal 400+mph vector, yet pauses long enough to "deflect the 2nd floor slab upwards" -- as if it also had upward explosive force similar to a bomb?

jet fuel cannot detonate - it can only deflagrate. burning humans horribly, mind you, but causing decidely non-explosive type damage.

so is the plane & fuel load "trapped" in part of the Pentagon long enough to explosively deflagrate upwards, knocking up the slab? or was the vector of entry upwards?

Something is very wrong with the "plane acted alone" theory. it's no better than the Lee Harvey Oswald "lone gunman" theory. it fails to fully explain the physical damage.

Something else must have also been at work.

I'm not prepared to defend a missile, or even explosives, given that no physical evidence of either has been brought to light (and how could it? AMEC wiped the Pentagon Wedge One clean!)

however, for those Gov't Loyalist // 9/11 commisssion report/ JREF hard core types -- stop and think about this.

How could a single 757 impact done all of this -- alone?>

I thought Russ believed in explosives, at least for the exit hole? Especially after seeing the main landing gear assembly in te AE Drive, I'm less keen on that possibility but there are some good clues. ns for explosives elsewhere, I'm agreed it's worth considering. How about that 9:43 bigger explosion? That seems fairly well-documented - what naturally in the Pentagon could explode louder than a crashing 757?
This is perhaps that same explosion, BTW, snapped by Darryl Donley a couple minutes after stopping after the 'first event.'


As far as the slab damage, it is somewhat odd so far into the building. Perhaps this was the landing gear strut that remained inside, hitting something massive in the building - a steel encased generator box or something - and bouncing up?


And as far as bunker-buster or confetti plane, it would be both. Different parts of the plane hitting different parts of the building at different times and in different states of cohesion. There are an awful lot of dynamics involved. A plane alone seems possible for pretty much everything. I don't see a need to finger anything else, but open to evidence of course.

One word: Impossible.

But the strange thing is, that this point (the damage inside the building) is more and less ignored. And furthermore it is very hard to let people understand how strong building Pentagon is. If one just look at the reinforced concrete columns, and the beams in the floors etc... I mean, this building is masive. It is a bunker.

People who wants to blame the damage on a plane is not in touch with the reality.

At the end of the day, either the Pentagon incidents on 9/11/01 were an "inside job" defined here as "taking place in part or in whole w/ knowledge and help of inside agents"

so unless you can RULE OUT all 'inside help' including incendiaries, wallbreaching kits, explosives, etc -- then you establish the prima facie case for "inside job"

"inside job" at Pentagon can include a plane impact as well. it's not an 'either /or' ...

IF you cannot FULLY correlate damage timing and pattern within Pentagon inner rings, and outer lawn, light poles, etc -- to explain ALL of the damage, then the "official 9/;11 story" goes out the window, and you MUST allow for 'inside help'

At that point, there is a need for sober thinking skepticisim!

there is no such thing as "hani hanjour piloted the plane, they took it over, found the pentagon, rammed it into the E ring, totally surprised everyone.." PLUS 'oh and then someone breached the A-E drve wall with a RWBK, and exploded a cordite bomb..."

plane impact + inside help = inside job

no plane impact + inside help = inside job.

Yes. I understand that point very well.

But...to me it is so obvious that no huge plane, B757, was involved in the "impact". Why ? Simply because, that then it would looks as a huge plane crashed there. But it does not. Not outside or inside.

And they have failed to give simple prove for the official story . It would have be easy thing to do...to prove it.

Instead they hide evidence and if they are forced to release some key info and evidence, which in ordinary case would prove the story....the same info dont prove the story at all.

So, to me there is all to much problem for the official plane story... and in my opinion people are nearly helping the official story when they are accepting the plane part of the story...without any hard evidence; saying: It must have been a plane etc, "damage flight path" and so on.

But this is just my opinion, and I am open minded person. Other people can have diffrent opinion.

And they have failed to give simple proof for the official story .

It would have be easy thing to do...to prove it.

(paging Mr Pickering & Hoffman....)

Instead they hide evidence and if they are forced to release some key info and evidence, which in ordinary case would prove the story....
---------------------

once again, unto the breach....

Did a 757 impact, beyond a reasonable doubt, destroy the D-ring Naval Command Center, and the Office of Naval Intel (CNI)?

Since the D ring naval command is located in a diagonal from the impact site, the damage path lines up better with the "official flight path" or SSFP-- southside.

However, the south-side flight path has fallen under serious questioning -- given light pole issues, Lloyd issues, and multiple CIT witness contradictions.

IS the Naval Command center destruction provable, beyond reasonable doubt, to be caused by 757 impact?
if you "put the plane on trial" for destroying the Naval Command Center, could a prosecutor get a conviction?

Would much of the available evidence tend to exculpate the primary "plane suspect"?"

something to ponder.

bump.

What killed Gerald De Conto and others in the Naval Command Center well within the D ring?

if the plane shattered itself on impact (hence little / no debris) and the FUEL was in the wings (which impacted the outer walls and burned OUTSIDE not INSIDE) -- then the only part of plane that could enter was fuselage (an oversized aluminum can with carbon-fiber avionics nosecond)

Yes, i can imagine that the cross-bars of under-wing and landing gear might punch a nice wallop, but how does THAT bit of the plane cause FIRE and EXPLOSIONS deep inside D and C rings?