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Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 11 2006, 11:37 PM
I've been thinking, and I want to change the general image of the Carcharas. Previously they were bad-ass starfish, who happen to have claws and mouths and be parasitic. Now I want them to more closely resemble Earth's pycnogonids, also known as sea spiders. I've recently been looking at some deep sea photography, and some of these guys are really spindly and creepy looking, and I think would make more logical sense as well as look way cooler on a Xiva. Check this out -
user posted image
Now imagine that, but black, slightly bigger, and Carcharas-it up a notch. Thicken the legs a little, but not too much, add some claws and a hell of a mouth at the bottom - I think that would look so much cooler than the current starfish-like Carcharas.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Nov 11 2006, 11:41 PM
*Looks at weird spider-like creature*
*Adds carcharas features in imagination*

AHHHHHH!

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 11 2006, 11:45 PM
Hooray, it is scary!

Also, I want clearance on the Xivai's approach to technology in the future. Do they reject technology and want only biotechnology, like Star Wars' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuuzhan_Vong, or will they combine both, like....the....uhhh....Borg? (Sorry, I'm not a Star Trek fan.)

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Nov 11 2006, 11:49 PM
I'd say combine both. The Xivai are all about being the best killers they can be, and if tools and other non-biotech things help them to kill, then they'll most likely use it.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 11 2006, 11:51 PM
Makes sense. So, Seb, are you going to pick up the Tanaxai, or are you going to let sleeping dogs lie?

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 12 2006, 12:27 AM
I have a picture of warfare for the Xivai, when they reach a period of time that we, right now, would consider 'modern', - or maybe a bit past modern. Or alot past modern, but not any major off-planet stuff yet.
----------------------
The Xivai will invent COLOSSAL guns that stem up from the deep sea-floor to the surface, guns that look somewhat like two-barreled anti-aircraft guns. There will be about five over the whole planet, but they are so vast and integral to the Xivai, that they will probably be the most heavily defended strongholds of the Xivai, perhaps being at the center of major Xivai 'cities'. These guns will run off steam and thermal energy from an unthinkable amount of hot-water vents on the sea floor, and their purpose - heh, here comes the good part - their purpose will be, simply, to create rain. They'll fire huge shells of Silver Iodide into the atmosphere, and that will cause huge amounts of rain to fall on the area which they have specified.

Rivers will overflow, the sea level will ride, and dams will break. This, combined with special Xivai terraforming technology that will cause tsunamis and earthquakes, will wreak havoc among the land that the Xivai have targeted. As the water level rises, the Xivai will swim in, and destroy anything that is submerged. To keep from being seen, they will breed special breeds of a rapid-breeding black deep-sea jellyfish, and release them into key areas that they have 'seeded'. (Seeding an area refers to submerging it, if it wasn't previously underwater.) The jellyfish will spread rapidly, and soon, the water will appear black. The Xivai will use these as cover, and send infantry to eliminate any threat.

Also, by this time, the Xivai will have developed powerful water filtration/purification systems, which will render harmless any poison released into the water. It does not matter whether the jellyfish die or not, since their bodies are only used for cover, living or not.

These warfare tactics will force the Xivai's enemies to migrate to the highest areas of the land, which will be very impractical and difficult. The alternative is migrating to large ships, but it is a risky idea, since being in a ship is being amidst the Xivai's best terrain. Most boats will be destroyed from the bottom, or harassed until they are forced to go back to land.
----------------------
So, what do you think?

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Nov 12 2006, 01:08 AM
I do believe that that idea is made of win and awsome. Would like to see more use of symbiotes, though (although I guess it would be implied that most of the symbiotes were helping the Xivai under the water).

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 12 2006, 01:11 AM
Coolios. Now answer the post above that post.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Nov 12 2006, 01:25 AM
Not quite sure, to tell you the truth. I'll try writing some stuff and seeing how it feels.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 12 2006, 05:15 PM
Come on, guys. You say you want Genesis alive, yet you won't discuss it?

Posted by: Gamgee Nov 12 2006, 05:34 PM
I dont think things would just change like that... while I do like the way they look (new one) I dont like how they magically changed. It doesnt fit with the game you know?


Oh and for there warfare tactics those would work until we can actually harness a way to go above ground. Since it is easier to go up rather than down. Not to mention we already have a minor poison filtering ability.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 12 2006, 06:00 PM
It's not like there's anyone watching over canon strictly, and making sure it's accurate. Plus, this way, it's logically more correct, and it looks cooler. Just a little update of it's looks, like superheroes do.

Plus, I checked, and there were no evolutions that would only apply if it had a starfish body.

Posted by: Gamgee Nov 12 2006, 06:57 PM
...... rhine already drew them they looked starfish you said it was a star fish its been a "killer starfish" since we got it qwhy change to killer under watter spider? It doesnt sound unexpected.... more cliche than anything. Would you expect a fairly inocent starfish of being one of the most deadly parasites? NOOOPE! Would you expect an evil looking underwater spider YEP!!!!!!!

I like the old look better anyways. They both look cool but wjhen it comes down to it I prefer the starfish look.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 12 2006, 08:36 PM
Rhine didn't draw it, and anyways, I've seen killer parasite starfish in a game anyways. Call of Cthulhu, mutha-sucka. On the island, in the prisons, they jump on you when you get close.

Spiders are cliched, but sea spiders are not. Sea spiders are very different from spiders. In fact, they're not even arachnids. Plus, as said, logical sense would make them sea spiders - if I knew about sea spiders at the time, they'd be that, instead of starfish.

I'm still on the sea-spider side of them for canon.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 12 2006, 11:22 PM
user posted image
--------------------------------------------------
With some adaptations, such as submerging it underwater, making it blacker, grimier, and far more organic, I think this would make a very menacing Xivai city. I like the look of the evenly spaced vent-things - water purification, perhaps? Or maybe a fountain system for phytoplankton, to feed the Ysugtha buildings?

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Nov 12 2006, 11:48 PM
Gamgee: The old starfish form of the Carcharas were more suited to the old style of Xivai (ie, before we got the exoskeleton). The new spindly/spikey/spider-like Carcharas are more suited to the current Xivai form.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 13 2006, 01:00 AM
And we did vote for alot of 'Carcharas adapting to our newer form' things...anyways, what do you guys think of the city?

Posted by: Gamgee Nov 14 2006, 01:41 PM
Fine whatever.... city looks good.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 14 2006, 09:31 PM
user posted image

Okay tourists, please look at the third brown robot to the right, from the top. The one with the mining pick in his hand. I think that the Xivai, if they have any land robots, should have something like that, sent in teams for mining/destroying work on land - say....destroy a dam, or dig a hole, or something. Just something to help spread water around. If attacked, they'd probably be able to hold their own for a little while, but ultimately, be doomed in the end - their sole purpose is to undermine strategic points on land.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 14 2006, 09:42 PM
user posted image

This just kind of inspired me to think about the Xivai's spacefaring technology. Not much to say on here, but I have some food for thought. Imagine Xivai fighters, blitzing through space firing here and there - then imagine one getting shot and blowing up - but no fire. Instead (completely soundless, because in space there is no sound), the hull kind of shatters apart from the inside out, and what's left is a large glittering sphere of water, floating aimlessly in space...since the Xivai will fill their cockpits with water, presumably. Awesome, or no?

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Nov 14 2006, 11:01 PM
I think that the brown robot in the very middle of the robot picture would be a better one, provided the spear point thing were replaced with a drill head.

Posted by: Gamgee Nov 15 2006, 06:15 AM
Oathin search pf deflier in warhammer 40k. Preferably on gamesworkshop. I pictured Xiva troop suits to look like that. They can definatly hold there own but unless they can get back there ultimitly doomed.

EDIT
Heres a good pic.
http://uk.games-workshop.com/chaosspacemarines/miniature-gallery/images/chaos-defiler.jpg

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 15 2006, 04:52 PM
No, the Xivai will absolutely phail in land technology. Think of it - it'll be tough enough to build it, let alone test it properly. A good Xivai land machine will be near impossible to make, and will truly require an innovative mind and approach to making it.

The way I see it, the Xivai will have one or two tried-and-true machines that will help them flood the land so they can bring in the big guns, but will not assault from water, because that is doom-phail. They will only assault IN water.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Nov 15 2006, 06:00 PM
By the way, I thought of another possible land unit for the Xivai: A large, heavy, tracked vehicle with large spade-like protrusions on the tracks. It uses these to tear up the ground, and then drops explosives in the trenches it leaves behind. These explosives make the trenches even larger. Then when the Xivai fire the rain-cannon, they fill up, becoming rivers that act as access points for Xivai to launch shorter-range weaponry from.

Posted by: Gamgee Nov 15 2006, 06:59 PM
We need some sort of suite for our men.... or xiva... not just vehichals thats extremely hindering.

Think about it would it be easier to capture or kill a group of soldiers that are hiding out of reach in a cave with a big ass tank or would it be easier to go in with small armored suites to clear them out.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 15 2006, 08:56 PM
Seb, that's a brilliant idea.

Gamgee, you're right, but think about the impractibility of such a suit being developed by the Xivai, a deep-sea dwelling people. That'd be like us humans developing a suit for walking in the deep-sea, which we haven't done yet. We have made a suit for walking underwater, like the one in Bioshock, but not one for such extremes like that.

And even if the Xivai did, that technology would be immeasurably inferior to the technology of their enemies on land. Suits go boom boom if attacked.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 19 2006, 07:51 PM
Come on peeps, come up with your own ideas too. You want Genesis alive, yet do nothing to help it? That doesn't make me want to update.

Posted by: Gamgee Nov 19 2006, 09:02 PM
humans arnt Xiva they are a completely different mind set litteraly. If you think about it evolution wise our brains are very different.

I was thinking along the lines of the suit being an extension of our carapace so that it is not to big and clunky but enough to get around in.

We may specialize in water but long term seige warfare will take along time and to make small advances on land into big lakes and such would be extremely helpfull. It would keep the land forces distracted. Not to mention going above the water in some form will be needed to develop some essential technologies for space flight. Theres everything to gain and not much to lose from making these suits. OH and of course its not a standard issue battle suit.

The other races of the land will most likely invent ways to come down to us but I admit them coming down in armoed suites would be suicidal. Its always harder going down than it is to go up.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 19 2006, 10:11 PM
I agree with Gamgee. It'd be cool if the suit looked like one of those first deep-sea diving suits, but with four legs or something wacky like that.

Posted by: Nox Nov 20 2006, 04:20 AM
http://www.fisicx.com/riven/images/riven046.jpg <--this, while not nessecarily Crystalli or Xivai, looks pretty cool

http://www.fisicx.com/riven/images/riven047.jpg <--the inside

You may recognize this as the rebel base in the game 'Riven'

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Nov 20 2006, 06:26 AM
Okay, picture this: a small-ish platform consisting of a Ysugtha chassis, several hydraulic legs protruding from said chassis, along with some tubes made from the same Ysugtha as the chassis, leading up to an obsidian (or Ysugtha, or hardened mucus, etc) faceplate through which to breath. The Xivai would sit atop the Ysugtha chassis, which would be a specially grown variety of Ysugtha which would have a large, hollow area in which to store water, and several tubal sections extending up to the faceplate. The Xivai would move the Ysugtha by transmitting shocks to certain nerves, which would activate the hydraulics in the legs.


The use of Ysughta flesh provides a chassis that is tough enough to withstand attacks, yet flexible enough to maneuver over difficult terrain. It would also be self-repairing. To get an idea of how it would look, imagine a convertable car, only replace the wheels with six legs and the car's body with flesh. However, the Ysugtha chassis also means that the vehicle would only be useful on land for a few days, and it would be rather difficult to get it there through the water at any great speed. I guess it would probably be best used as an invasion vehicle brought over on a carrier.

Also, am I the only one that sees augmented Ysugtha as being the primary shock-troop vehicles on ground? Imagine an AT-AT from Star Wars stomping towards you. Now replace the main body with a mass of purple flesh and muscle, gaping, tooth-filled maws, and tentacles as thick as tree trunks, and you have one of the most terrifying vehicles ever created. It'd stamp its way onto the battlefield, crushing everything under foot and leaving a desolate landscape in its wake. Enemy soldiers would flee from the earth-shaking footfalls, which would be felt from over a kilometre away, and heard even from further. The ultimate moral crusher.

Posted by: Gamgee Nov 20 2006, 02:01 PM
Since we will not be developing land based homes for obvious reasons another useful tactic which relates to the flood cannons above. Load up an extremely potent acid and launch it over a base or city to invlict considerable damage.

I actually think Yasgutha will be shock troops due to there bigger size ad need of water. Any vehichal that has a mix of biology in it would be a more straighht up attack vehichal. Where as the mechs would be for quick hit and strike and for more longer bases missions.

With a fusion of bio tech and normal tech we can make a wide range of vehichals. The exreme technological ones like the mech suits and then ones that are almost all yasgutha. Or balance of both, it allows for great flexibility for us :nod:

Posted by: smurfslayer Nov 20 2006, 03:44 PM
Yup definitely. And of course there is always the possibility of us finding a new symbiote.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 20 2006, 04:16 PM
...purple?

Posted by: Gamgee Nov 20 2006, 08:47 PM
Wait what? If that was spam Im disapointed. Mauinly because you wanted us to discuss genesis now we are. Its great then you came in and say purple. I know its your forum but its not encouraging.

If it was a genuion question Im also mystified as to what you mean.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Nov 20 2006, 09:20 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Nov 21 2006, 10:16 AM)
...purple?

I was under the impression that the Ysugtha were dark purplish-brown.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Nov 21 2006, 02:02 AM
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Nov 21 2006, 08:01 AM)
I actually think Yasgutha will be shock troops due to there bigger size ad need of water. Any vehichal that has a mix of biology in it would be a more straighht up attack vehichal. Where as the mechs would be for quick hit and strike and for more longer bases missions.

That's pretty much what I meant. Due to their dependance on water, the Ysugtha vehicles could only be used for a few days at most. Xivai tactics will revolve around causing the maximum amount of fear, and Ysugtha vehicles will provide that in spades. They might not actually be the best in regards of physical damage, but their main purpose will be to crush the morale of the enemy troops in order to make them easier to kill.

Also, I think the Crystalli's modern-day infantry weapons will consist of mainly rapid-firing, air-powered flechette guns that fire needle-sharp crystal shards (if you've played C&C: Renegade, the tiberium flechette gun is pretty much what I'm talking about), knives and swords made from the tougher crystal, and a whip made of highly-strung, extremely tightly-bound vines.

Another possible weapon for the Xivai to use in their rain-cannons is traces of bacteria that thrive in low temperatures, but are also dangerous to the target species. They could spread disease in the rainfall.

Posted by: Gamgee Nov 21 2006, 01:05 PM
I think the Xivas control of electricity will lead to some interesting weapons developments. Also tactics for interogastion would be good since we can semi read minds.

For a long battle Xivai will rely on mech suites and vehichals that arnt biological because in a long fight there wont be time to go back for water time and time again. There suites would enable pronlonged assaults while the Yasguths stuff would be brought in to induce fear.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 21 2006, 01:33 PM
Mechs are teh lamb. There is a way to do everything biologically, though some pure tech implants and bits would add greatly to the coolness and fear factor of the Xivai, mech suits would be very lamb.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 21 2006, 04:46 PM
QUOTE (Seb (sjvan0) @ Nov 21 2006, 05:20 AM)
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Nov 21 2006, 10:16 AM)
...purple?

I was under the impression that the Ysugtha were dark purplish-brown.

You know when you have a funny feeling in your nose, and you pick it, and can feel a huge booger, but are frustrated that it's just beyond your reach? And hours later, you manage to pick it out?

That's the colour of the Ysugtha.

Maybe I went too in-depth...

Posted by: Gamgee Nov 21 2006, 05:09 PM
Twitch dont worry we will eventually atain biological ownage mode where we can get rid of almsot ALL technology. In the mean time we will have to have a balance. Even for us to make a biological suit to breath on land would be hard there would need to be some sort of technology involved and it wouldnt be as strong. So like I said twitchy we are going to need a balance for a time. Then when we gain pwnage bio tech... well its game over for everything else right?

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 21 2006, 05:41 PM
I think the Xivai should be all like 'w3 i5 l33t st3@mpuNk'. Because Steampunk is awesome, and likely with the Xivai, since they have hot water vents nearby - as their only source of natural energy.

Okay, take Necromunda and mix it with Steampunk, and you'll get the grimy dystopian society that I'm picturing. Dystopian, yet zealously religious. With a touch of the atmosphere in 'Bioshock'.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 21 2006, 05:54 PM
Below the thunders of the upper deep;
Far far beneath in the abysmal sea,
Their ancient, dreamless, uninvaded sleep
The Ysugtha sleepeth: faintest sunlights flee
About their shadowy sides; above them swell
Huge sponges of millennial growth and height;
And far away into the sickly light,
From many a wondrous grot and secret cell
Unnumber'd and enormous polypi
Winnow with giant arms the slumbering green.
There hath they've lain for ages, and will lie
Battening upon huge seaworms in his sleep,
Until the latter fire shall heat the deep;
Then once by man and angels to be seen,
In roaring he shall rise and on the surface die.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 21 2006, 11:48 PM
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Nov 22 2006, 01:09 AM)
Twitch dont worry we will eventually atain biological ownage mode where we can get rid of almsot ALL technology. In the mean time we will have to have a balance. Even for us to make a biological suit to breath on land would be hard there would need to be some sort of technology involved and it wouldnt be as strong. So like I said twitchy we are going to need a balance for a time. Then when we gain pwnage bio tech... well its game over for everything else right?

So long as it's a temporary measure I suppose it's alright, so long as the mech suits aren't real heavy. Heavy space marinesque suits are not Xivai. Yuuzhan Vong style rejection of all tech has never really been the style I've wanted to go with on the Xivai, I'm really more into the idea of using both bio and tech implants, but the idea of suits as a long term solution bothers me because it hides all of our cool symbiotes and whatnot.

Posted by: Gamgee Nov 22 2006, 01:34 PM
Twitch if you read it properly. I was saying the Mech suits were an advanced scout attack unit. They are made heavy and durable because there sent ahead of the main body onto land. They will be hidden from sight of course but until the biological flood guns come up from the sea they establish and hold the beach head. The Flood guns then start shooting out rain to flood the land and thats when we start using more bio technological stuff and we may even be able to slither/walk around for short bursts of time with the rain cannons firing. Then the process repeats they go ahead of the main force and so on so forth till the land no longer exsists. Oh and we continuously haul out sand and... earth really to be used in construction or be tossed aside. It gains us resources, denies the enemy of there presous land, allows us a fast attack and longer more bigger battles involving our true biotech might.

Sound good?

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 22 2006, 04:58 PM
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Nov 22 2006, 09:34 PM)
Twitch if you read it properly. I was saying the Mech suits were an advanced scout attack unit. They are made heavy and durable because there sent ahead of the main body onto land. They will be hidden from sight of course but until the biological flood guns come up from the sea they establish and hold the beach head. The Flood guns then start shooting out rain to flood the land and thats when we start using more bio technological stuff and we may even be able to slither/walk around for short bursts of time with the rain cannons firing. Then the process repeats they go ahead of the main force and so on so forth till the land no longer exsists. Oh and we continuously haul out sand and... earth really to be used in construction or be tossed aside. It gains us resources, denies the enemy of there presous land, allows us a fast attack and longer more bigger battles involving our true biotech might.

Sound good?

Honestly I stopped reading at heavy. It doesn't matter how good your tactics are if your soldiers look like phail space marines.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 22 2006, 05:06 PM
They should look like Cryx Warjacks.

Posted by: Gamgee Nov 22 2006, 05:09 PM
There not going to look luike space marines you tard. If you READ you would have known that.

Did twitchy get a hit or two over the head lowering his brains ability to work or somthing? No offense but patience young twitchy.

EDIT
Somthing like this twitchy is what the mech suits would look like. We will make it Xivai like but the general shape will stay. I onyl really want the chassi (legs) and the arms everything else in the pic can be cut out and replaced with whatever.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/chaosspacemarines/miniature-gallery/images/chaos-defiler.jpg

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 22 2006, 06:07 PM
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Nov 23 2006, 01:09 AM)
There not going to look luike space marines you tard. If you READ you would have known that.

Did twitchy get a hit or two over the head lowering his brains ability to work or somthing? No offense but patience young twitchy.

EDIT
Somthing like this twitchy is what the mech suits would look like. We will make it Xivai like but the general shape will stay. I onyl really want the chassi (legs) and the arms everything else in the pic can be cut out and replaced with whatever.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/chaosspacemarines/miniature-gallery/images/chaos-defiler.jpg

You say they aren't going to look like space marines and then when describing what it will look like you give me a picture of a space marine and I'm a retard?

Well, either way it is suck.

Posted by: Gamgee Nov 22 2006, 07:59 PM
Good to know you havent gone soft on us at least. Dont worry Twitchy we will purge the Technology ALMOST completly in the end and be biological machines of killing and ripping and tearing with lots of blood and guts of the enemy flying everywhere!!!!

MOAHAHAHAH!!!!!

That better twitch?

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 23 2006, 12:54 AM
It'll be better once we agree on a more streamlined mech suit design. It doesn't have to be like a wetsuit, but too much bulk I'm not going to go for. Of course, we don't neccesarily have to come in agreeance. You state your side, I'll state mine, and it'll be on. It's always the most fun that way anyway.

Posted by: Gamgee Nov 23 2006, 06:55 AM
They need to be bulky simply because they have to hold a beachhead for days without any additional help. The rain cannons would take a while to come up ans start flooding then a few days it would take to actually flood sufficiently for the more biological weaponry to be brought in.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 23 2006, 05:39 PM
Are you not listening? I don't care if the nazis, the redbacks, and the red baron are coming if the Xivai end up looking like Michelin men.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 23 2006, 05:50 PM
It'll be the level of bulk that Big Daddy from Bioshock is, at the very least, I'm guessing.

Posted by: Gamgee Nov 24 2006, 09:47 PM
user posted image

user posted image


user posted image

user posted image




OOOOOOOOOO so Xivaiish inspiring. This is from the guy who does gone with the blast wave comic.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 27 2006, 04:59 PM
Gamgee, those just say 'user posted image'.

Also, guys, we need to discuss how long you want the tribal stage to go on. As you already know, you will not play the whole thing out - you will play the beginning of it, the you will lose control as hundreds of years pass, and the tribes do things based on how you have played them. You will not completely lose control though, since you will be able to vote on several major revolutionary inventions/innovations.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 27 2006, 05:08 PM
Maybe 5 more tribal updates...it really depends on how often you update. If you're going to be updating daily I'd say as many as 10 more would be appropriate.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 27 2006, 08:20 PM
After many hours' worth of confusion, frustration, and research, I have finished scientifically classifying the Crystalli. Behold my glorious work!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scientific Classification
Domain: Eukaryota (Complex Organisms)
Kingdom: Animalia (Animals)
Phylum: Chordata (Animals with Notochords)
Subphylum: Vertebrata (Vertebrates)
Infraphylum: Gnathostomata (Jawed Vertebrates)
Series: Amniota (Amniotic Embryo)
Superclass: Tetrapoda (Four Legged)
Class: Theropsida “Beast Face”
Order: Manusauria “Hand-Footed Lizard”
Family: Plumanemuscendo “Feathered Tree-Climber”
Genus: Brevisvolans “Short Flyer”
Species: Decastoma “Ten-Jawed”
Binomial Name: Brevisvolans Decastoma “Ten-Jawed Glider”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 27 2006, 08:58 PM
You are such a zoology dork, Oath.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 27 2006, 10:40 PM
Just trying to bring a tad more realism to the world of Genesis.

The Xivai are especially hard to transfer over - from Class and down, they are entirely unique. Meaning, they are definitely far from anything on Earth.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Nov 27 2006, 11:21 PM
Currently working from wikipedia, so it might be wrong, but I've got this so far for the Xivai:

Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Subphylum: Vertebrata
Infraphylum: Gnathostomata
Class: Sarcopterygii
Subclass: Tetrapodomorpha
Family: Tristichopteridae

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 27 2006, 11:36 PM
I don't know....

"Most Tristichopterids can crawl on land for a short time with their strong fins, to catch their land-living prey."

"The Tristichopterids were small - medium sized fishes"

I'll try to do my own research, but I doubt I'll have any luck.

Edit: Are Xivai even true vertebrates?

"Rather, all vertebrates are most easily distinguished from all other chordates by having an unequivocal head, that is, sensory organs - especially eyes are concentrated at the fore end of the body and there is pronounced cephalization."

Edit: Maybe placodermi or chimaeriformes?

Posted by: Gamgee Nov 28 2006, 03:58 PM
To think somthing completely not earth like came from my mind. Only one as insane as me could have thought the Xiva up.... I feel proud I would like to thank the academy *long boring speech with a few tears at end*

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Nov 28 2006, 04:04 PM
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Nov 29 2006, 09:58 AM)
To think somthing completely not earth like came from my mind. Only one as insane as me could have thought the Xiva up.... I feel proud I would like to thank the academy *long boring speech with a few tears at end*

Arrogant much?

Remember, Gamgee, you aren't the only one playing this, and if I remember correctly, you were dead set against having tenetacles, but now they're a major part of the Xivai. The Xivai did not come from just your head, they came from all of us.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 28 2006, 04:09 PM
You have to realize that Gamgee is mostly always wrong. We just let him have his little bits of enjoyment so he doesn't freak out and try to shoot us all.

Oh...hmm...*cough*...I mean good job, Gamgee!

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 28 2006, 05:09 PM
We all somewhat love our despicable little Gamgee.

Anyways, I'll post what I have for the Xivai so far - though I must remind you - from class and down, they are in a complete new category of their own.

Domain: Eukaryota (Complex Organisms)
Kingdom: Animalia (Animals)
Phylum: Chordata (Animals with Notochords)
Subphylum: Vertebrata (Vertebrates)
Infraphylum: Osteostraci (Bony-Armored Jawless Fish)
Class: Nothoagnatha (False Jawless Fish)
Subclass: I was thinking 'Deep One' or something else meaning something from the deep sea.
Order: For this, I was thinking something having to do with tentacles, maybe 'Dark Tentacles' or something like that.
Family: I don't know. Maybe 'Fin-Limb' or some other anatomical feature.
Genus: 'Hand Tentacle' maybe, since they have manipulators on their tentacles.
Species: 'Abyss Dweller', since they live in the deep sea.
Binomial Name: Genus and species, obviously.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 28 2006, 05:30 PM
Anyways, we need to discuss when you want the tribal stage to end, assuming that I will update once a week. You can either end it after an important event, like a war, or just randomly in some spot of time, or something else.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 28 2006, 05:51 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Nov 29 2006, 01:30 AM)
Anyways, we need to discuss when you want the tribal stage to end, assuming that I will update once a week. You can either end it after an important event, like a war, or just randomly in some spot of time, or something else.

If it's once a week updating, I'd say 5 more updates would be in order. You can try to make the time of change significant, but I think the time is more important. 5 more weeks would be a good timespan.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 28 2006, 06:19 PM
What I don't want our species to be - http://www.sporewiki.com/Kazea_%28Concept%29#Basic_Information

These are just weird humans. Sure, they have a nice extensive line, from their evolution to their civilizations' end, but most of what they have created are just weird parallels of human inventions. I do not want our civilizations becoming like that.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 28 2006, 06:30 PM
Plus, they look like Digimon.

I think the Xivai has been pretty unique thus far.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 28 2006, 07:20 PM
Considering that they barely fit into the Linnaean method of scientific classification, I'd say so.

And I liked Digimon.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 28 2006, 07:22 PM
Digimon is fine, but the Xivai are most certainly not Digimon.

Posted by: Gamgee Nov 28 2006, 08:22 PM
Eh I had a general vision for them and for the most part they are what I mingined. However if it went exactly there would be a few key additions and subtractions. Overall I think they have turned out nice.

Yea it was a bit arrogant, I meant I was the founder of the whole evil creaturs from the deep thing.

But alas let us continue to play and wreak havoc among our many foes.

Posted by: Gamgee Nov 28 2006, 08:24 PM
If the Xiva were ever classified as digimon you can bet your asses the commisar hat would come back on.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Nov 28 2006, 08:50 PM
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Nov 29 2006, 02:24 PM)
If the Xiva were ever classified as digimon you can bet your asses the commisar hat would come back on.

Or Digimon would have become seriously awsome.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 28 2006, 10:23 PM
Oh, that made me laugh out loud.

Anyways, I'm going to try to fill out the Xivai Sporewiki page. Make an account, and you can help out, though I warn I'll be stingy about what you put on there - I'm a perfectionist. Seb, you can make a Tanaxai page.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 28 2006, 10:27 PM
Aren't the Tanaxai dead?

I'm not even going to bother amending the page. My memeory of all the histoy and xivai attributes is not that good.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 28 2006, 10:33 PM
Yes, the Xivai had few 'histoy' to remember.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 28 2006, 10:48 PM
Yes! The Xivai have been scientifically classified.

Domain: Eukaryota (Complex Organisms)
Kingdom: Animalia (Animals)
Phylum: Chordata (Animals with Notochords)
Subphylum: Vertebrata (Vertebrates)
Infraphylum: Osteostraci (Bony-Armored Jawless Fish)
Class: Nothoagnatha (False Jawless Fish)
Subclass: Profundunus (Deep Ones)
Order: Tentaclatrum “Dark Tentacle”
Family: Dolichodactylosartusidae “Elongated Fin-Limb”
Genus: Deinovultus “Terrible Form”
Species: Profunduscola “Abyss Dweller”
Binomial Name: Deinovultus Profunduscola “Terrible Abyss Dweller”

Has no one noticed that the Xivai are jawless? Kids these days...

Wiki slightly updated - http://www.sporewiki.com/Content:Xivai

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 28 2006, 10:59 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Nov 29 2006, 06:33 AM)
Yes, the Xivai had few 'histoy' to remember.

My keyboard sticks you bastard, and sometimes keystrokes don't register because it's wireless. It's amazing I do as well as I do.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 28 2006, 11:20 PM
Okay, Xivai - possessive form. What is it?

Xivai? Xivain? Xivan? Xivite?

Crystalli, you do the same too.

Crystalli? Crystallian? Crystallin? Crystallite?

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 28 2006, 11:25 PM
I'm liking Xivian. Put my vote in for that one unless someone comes up with something better.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 28 2006, 11:26 PM
Check it out! Propererer links and updated information!

http://www.sporewiki.com/Crystalli

http://www.sporewiki.com/Xivai

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 28 2006, 11:27 PM
This is pretty cool.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4464314857469915663&q=spore&pl=true

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 28 2006, 11:34 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Nov 29 2006, 07:27 AM)
This is pretty cool.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4464314857469915663&q=spore&pl=true

We could do that using Flash, bitmap tracing set to low settings, and a shape tween.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 28 2006, 11:35 PM
The http://www.sporewiki.com/Naucean, as detailed as they are, also suffer from 'Hey, I'm an alien-human." syndrome as well. Thing with those guys, is that they haven't been put to the test, like ours, who are being forged everyday by playing a game. The game smooths it out.

Check http://www.sporewiki.com/Aurum out. They are t3h smoke. They are real, because they have a game as well. Also, their maker (Who's real name is Thor, how cool is that?) started the whole scientific classification thing. Kudos to him.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 28 2006, 11:41 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Nov 29 2006, 07:35 AM)
The http://www.sporewiki.com/Naucean, as detailed as they are, also suffer from 'Hey, I'm an alien-human." syndrome as well. Thing with those guys, is that they haven't been put to the test, like ours, who are being forged everyday by playing a game. The game smooths it out.

Check http://www.sporewiki.com/Aurum out. They are t3h smoke. They are real, because they have a game as well. Also, their maker (Who's real name is Thor, how cool is that?) started the whole scientific classification thing. Kudos to him.

They're interesting, but not as cool as the Xivai by a long shot.

Posted by: Gamgee Nov 29 2006, 01:11 PM
Those creatures... are all really weak. no offense but any player made creature I see its like... its kinda cool but it doenst stand a real chance against mine. Then we ahve a fight about it and he runs away crying as I explain what Xivai can do. Most admit defeat....

Once the Xivai are unleashed in the galaxy I feel incredibly sorry for all the other creatures out there.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 29 2006, 04:57 PM
Twitch, explain to me how you can morph like that. I started making one, but the morphs were just sudden changes. Morphing would be so much cooler.

Posted by: Gamgee Nov 29 2006, 05:24 PM
Im just starting to learn flash. Nothing spectacular yet. A small simple animation of a UFO abduction and a 30 second clip of the cop fighting a zombie.

All in pure awsome stick figure action tongue.gif


My freind is also having that problem Oath.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 29 2006, 05:34 PM
user posted image

Grr. I is Xivai, I is scary. It'd be nice if someone could colour this. Speaking of that, I need to know what Xivai colouration is like. So far, they've been black and/or deep purple, but I realized that if they're deep sea creatures, they'd have an odd colouration, since down there, colour doesn't matter. For realism's sake, take a look at other deep sea creatures and tell me what you think their colour should be.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 29 2006, 06:15 PM
Cool drawing, Oat. Unfortunately, my next chance to use anything up MS paint will be one week from today, but i might try something using that program. I'm not a bad pixel artist.

Posted by: Gamgee Nov 29 2006, 06:15 PM
I sitll have rhines drawing..... you realize that right?

And it is up to date you know that right?

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 29 2006, 06:18 PM
Oath's drawing is in some ways more conducive to coloring, however, Rhine's already has the shading in it. With his all you'd have to do is create a transparent layer over his drawing in photoshop, set your paint to a low opacity, and set the blending mode to color and paint with solid color and it should look pretty good.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 29 2006, 06:21 PM
But Rhine's is highly inaccurate to Xivai physiology, noobcakes.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 29 2006, 06:22 PM
Twitch, if I draw the pictures, could you make the video? You know, for the Flash shape-tween evolving thing-a-majig?

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 29 2006, 06:25 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Nov 30 2006, 02:22 AM)
Twitch, if I draw the pictures, could you make the video? You know, for the Flash shape-tween evolving thing-a-majig?

In time, yes. Just post them here or somewhere public where I can retrieve them in class and I'll get to work when I go next week.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 29 2006, 06:32 PM
I'll make them sometime this week, then. Thanks.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 29 2006, 06:33 PM
Would you prefer sketchy, like the video? Or black line, like my other drawings?

Also, the Sporewiki sites have been updated with pictures.

Can you colour those as well?

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 29 2006, 06:36 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Nov 30 2006, 02:33 AM)
Would you prefer sketchy, like the video? Or black line, like my other drawings?

Also, the Sporewiki sites have been updated with pictures.

Can you colour those as well?

I might be able to, I'll do as much as I can with the time I have.

Black line is greatly preferred, as clean as possible with no shading. This makes it easier for flash to trace the image and makes the shape tween look much nicer.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 29 2006, 06:48 PM
Will do. Is a 'zoom out' effect possible?

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 29 2006, 07:05 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Nov 30 2006, 02:48 AM)
Will do. Is a 'zoom out' effect possible?

Yeah, I guess, what exactly would you want me to do with that effect? Would you want the thing to just appear to get smaller? Or would you have it get blurred as well?

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 29 2006, 07:08 PM
For the end of the cell stage, I want it to zoom out further and further so the cells appear to have been in the first creature form. It makes more sense visually.

I can draw smaller and smaller if you want, but I just need you to take the dozens of cells I draw and make it seem like millions, or at least in the screen. You know, you see one cell, then ten, then a hundred, then a couple hundred, then a million tiny dots, then the creature. Like it's zooming out of a part of the creature.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 29 2006, 07:13 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Nov 30 2006, 03:08 AM)
For the end of the cell stage, I want it to zoom out further and further so the cells appear to have been in the first creature form. It makes more sense visually.

I can draw smaller and smaller if you want, but I just need you to take the dozens of cells I draw and make it seem like millions, or at least in the screen. You know, you see one cell, then ten, then a hundred, then a couple hundred, then a million tiny dots, then the creature. Like it's zooming out of a part of the creature.

I think I can do that. All I'd really need from you for that would be the one cell and all the other parts you want shown. You don't have to give me multiple cells, but every unique part you want included I'll need a drawing of.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 29 2006, 07:27 PM
Sounds good. Now let's discuss Xivai coloration, like I mentioned earlier.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 29 2006, 07:33 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Nov 30 2006, 03:27 AM)
Sounds good. Now let's discuss Xivai coloration, like I mentioned earlier.

Mauve.

Posted by: OathinBlood Nov 29 2006, 07:35 PM
Funny.

Posted by: smurfslayer Nov 29 2006, 07:57 PM
Okay, that video was sweet. We need one.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Nov 29 2006, 08:45 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Nov 30 2006, 03:35 AM)
Funny.

Funny isn't a color.

Posted by: Nox Dec 2 2006, 09:56 PM
My mindless, rambling idea for future updates:

Have 1 thread for the 'constant' Xivai/Crystalli stats, like religion, population, language, resources, ect. Edit these when needed

Have a second thread for the 'current' stuff, including the current events paragraphs and the voting options. I think this might be more time-effective

Just my two cents unsure.gif

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 2 2006, 10:24 PM
I was thinking about doing that. I'll start.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Dec 3 2006, 08:53 PM
I just thought of another possible weapon for the Xivai: and item that amplifies and focuses their bio electricity, allowing them to fire longer-range and more powerful bolts. A possiblity for a siege weapon is a large amplifier that many Xivai (probably around 100) can charge at once, producing a single, massive bolt of eletricity. Smaller versions requiring between 4 and 10 Xivai could be mounted on the gigantic Ysugtha AT-ATs and used in battle.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 4 2006, 01:59 PM
bwheheheh electricity zaaping pathetic inferior races... rofl lol.

I feel dumb right now.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Dec 4 2006, 09:29 PM
Another possibility for the electro-weapons is propaganda towers for use against other Xivai. We could drive our soldiers into an overwhelming bloodlust, or we could fill the minds of our enemies with terrifying thoughts. We could also use it to cause immense amounts of pain in non-Xivai, since all they'd get is the sound of a banshee screeching into their minds. I can see the blood flowing from their ears already 676.gif.

*First Terran vs Xivai Battle*

Soldier, reporting to base: "Sarge, the ETs are gathering around some kind of obelisk-like structure. They seem to be-"*a bright flash is seen on the horizon, quickly filling the screen with light. As the light fades, we can see the soldier writhing around on the ground in agony, clutching his head and screaming.*"OH GOD! THE PAIN! MAKE IT STOOOOP! AAAAAARGH! AAAAR-"*the soldier abrubtly halts his flailing, and is silent. As another flash is seen on the horizon, the screen turns to static*

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Dec 5 2006, 05:29 AM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Nov 22 2006, 11:41 AM)
I think the Xivai should be all like 'w3 i5 l33t st3@mpuNk'. Because Steampunk is awesome, and likely with the Xivai, since they have hot water vents nearby - as their only source of natural energy.

Okay, take Necromunda and mix it with Steampunk, and you'll get the grimy dystopian society that I'm picturing. Dystopian, yet zealously religious. With a touch of the atmosphere in 'Bioshock'.

I think that a mixture of steampunk and biobunk would probably be more fitting rather than just steampunk. Eg, steam-powered computers mounted in the walls of Ysugtha structures, giant eletro-cannons mounted onto Ysugtha striding onto the battlefield on steam-powered mechanical legs.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 5 2006, 05:10 PM
QUOTE (Seb (sjvan0) @ Dec 5 2006, 01:29 PM)
I think that a mixture of steampunk and biobunk would probably be more fitting rather than just steampunk. Eg, steam-powered computers mounted in the walls of Ysugtha structures, giant eletro-cannons mounted onto Ysugtha striding onto the battlefield on steam-powered mechanical legs.

I like it. The exact implementation is something we can debate in time, but the way I see it, it breaks down like this:

Technology = Not scary.

Biotech = scary.

Tech with biotech = OMG L337 Scars!

Posted by: Nox Dec 5 2006, 06:19 PM
Very nice banner thingamabob, by the way. (I'm guessing it was Ostagir? Fantastic work!)


smile.gif

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 5 2006, 07:16 PM
I agree with twitch and nox. Good job osty.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 5 2006, 10:46 PM
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Dec 6 2006, 03:16 AM)
I agree with twitch and nox. Good job osty.

Yes, quite nice.

If you have any of those drawings ready, Oath, make them available to me be tomorrow afternoon.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 5 2006, 11:04 PM
The ideas are indeed made out of win and awesomeness.

And will do, Twitch. I'll post them up here, I guess.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Dec 10 2006, 04:00 AM
How about this for something during the civillisation phase? A specially-augmented class of Xivai that act as controllers over creatures that have special implants placed in them. The implants are not simple mind-control ones, however. Once the Xivai takes control, their very conciousness melds with that of the other creatures, and they can never be seperated again. This means that they can now act as a single body, providing massive versatility, since the single being can take advantage of the abilities of each individual creature, as though they were it's own limbs, fingers, eyes, ears, mouth, and nostrils.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 10 2006, 07:26 PM
The disadvantage to the mr seb is the fact that he can feel everything of the creatures. What if they discover happines? Happy is pain for us, where as there pain gives us strength and we like.

So its a double edge sword. I would be worried about having to keep these individuals undercontrol there new wider range of feelings could prove disasterous. Im sure the commisars could handle watching these xivai but it is a risk if they go qand dessert.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 12 2006, 12:11 AM
As for Seb's idea, it'd be cool, but I don't know if it'd be scientifically possible. Then again, debating realism in a fictional world is always confuzzling...Gamgee, to the Xivai, happiness is not pain. Every sapient being in the multiverse strives only to attain happiness - it is the only goal in life. The Xivai of Thanatos Fyli have just grown up around an environment where pain means happiness, brainwashed into occult members of the Unspeakable's religion.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Dec 12 2006, 12:59 AM
Well, considering that the Xivai already have high-level telepathic abilities within their own species, it wouldn't be such a gigantic leap of faith to say that they'll eventually figure out exactly how the brains of other species work. Then all they'd need to do is either give them a frontal lobotomy (or whatever the equivelent is) for fully-grown creatures, or give them large amounts of neural-suppressants from a young age. Then all they'd need to do is put in an implant that allows the brain to act as a reciever, and voila, one slave-creature. Further on they could probably even genetically-engineer creatures that have modified brains that are essentially empty. While they could do the basic functions to keep the body from dieing (such as breathing, defecating, seeking food, etc), they wouldn't have any higher-brain functions until they're occupied by a controller Xivai (remember, controller Xivai will be special Xivai that have increased telepathic capabilities, either through genetic engineering, chemical influence, or artificial influence (ie, implants)). Then once the Xivai is done with them, they can "exit" the brain again, retunring it to it's previous state

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 12 2006, 06:11 PM
Interesting - I like it.

Guys, rent 'Dagon'. It's a fairly good movie, and the beginning (and end, coincedentially) is an awesome idea for the Xivai underworld. The big Dagon-hole. Carvings and everything.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 12 2006, 06:20 PM
user posted image
This chaos spawn's chest looks like a Ysugtha, albeit red and veiny.

user posted image
I think lots of good Xivai armor-concept can be salvaged from this Chaos Priest. Namely, the spear design (without the human skull, of course), the pauldrons, and the armor-flaps on the robe.

user posted image
Similarly, Xivai concept-armor can be found from this, too. Namely, the armor-flaps on the robe again. And the bra size.

user posted image
Again, Xivai concept-armor and designs can be found in this Chaos Knight. I was thinking the uber-cool eye design he's got going on his groin, and the subtle eye imagery all along his armor. The rest is too human.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 12 2006, 06:29 PM
I think the Xivai armor should be much more spikey and threatening looking. Or at least the ceremonial stuff.

I have the perfect idea for an award armor. I dont have details of what it looks like but it is made to capture the essence of the presence. It captures its pain and strength and only very powerful warriors would be awarded such armor. It would be a cut above more standard armor for obvious reasons.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 12 2006, 06:40 PM
We should definitely have many levels of armor for different classes of fighter and skill levels, but I would prefer something more biotech. Forming suits of armor with tailored ysugtha or carcharas. Perhaps even some other creatures could be used, like those damn veznisk if they refuse to listen to authorita.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 12 2006, 06:47 PM
Yes definatly more organic. I think a fusion of biotech and say spikey steel with obsidian in it would be in the inspiration of the presence. It would be the best armor available (due to our trouble with metal and stuff down here). At least cerimonialy it would be the best probably combat wise too but whos to say.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 12 2006, 07:39 PM
Indeed, indeed. I think metals and technology have a place with biotech, but I wouldn't, for instance, support an all metal helmet with completely biological pauldrons. I think every piece of armor should have some integration of tech with biotech. Like a ysugtha helmet with metal chinguard and obsidian spikes running down the diameter.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 12 2006, 07:45 PM
That would be stupid having a metal helm then organic pauldrons.... Im insane not dumb.

Each peice for the highest armor would have a combination of all three in it. Im thinking obsidian would be in each peice as spikes to make it look more xivaiish.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 12 2006, 07:48 PM
Sounds good. The metal would likely be the most defensive piece, with the obsidian serving both offensive and defensive purposes, and the ysugtha flesh being more of an offensive tool. It covers all the areas.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Dec 12 2006, 10:29 PM
How about Ysugtha exo-skeletons similar to the robotic suits from Appleseed, Ghost in the Shell: SAC, and to a lesser extent the loaders from Aliens for near-future (in comparison to current human tech) Xivai tech? However, they'd obviously need to be specially grown in order to be able to react to the Xivai's influences, as well as having the general Xivanoid shape. In addition to the offensive and defensive benefits, they'd also be able to survive outside of the water for a much longer amount of time, since the suits would be pressurised, would contain a substantial amount of water, and could easily act as emergency rations, so long as they only ate small amounts over long periods of time.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Dec 13 2006, 04:27 AM
I just found pretty much exactly what I was thinking of when I talked about the gigantic Ysugtha-striders: Appleseed's Mobile Fortresses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jk5JuodACo (starting about 40 seconds in)
http://tecfa.unige.ch/~nova/img/appleseed.jpg
http://www.cydonian.com/jean/mechas/APPLESEED_FINAL8.jpg

Just replace the main body with a Ysugtha, and the weaponry with the Xivai equivelents, and you've got my idea.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 13 2006, 12:51 PM
It would need to be much more biomechanical. Too human looking.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Dec 13 2006, 04:27 PM
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Dec 14 2006, 06:51 AM)
It would need to be much more biomechanical. Too human looking.

What about it is human-looking? It looks like a friggin gigantic insect.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 13 2006, 05:08 PM
That'd be great, but you need to think outside of the human-box. Remember, the Xivai will primarily fight in the sea, and what little land technology they have will be crude and primitive compared to the existing land civilizations.

Imagine if there was an aquatic race living in Earth's oceans. All our high-tech ships, submarines, diving suits would look like kid's playtoys compared to that race's aquatic technology.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 14 2006, 12:18 AM
I'd say go with that design, except cover it in gooey shredded flesh and make it aquatic. Just about everything should be covered in flesh of some kind, it's just menacing.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Dec 14 2006, 02:21 AM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Dec 14 2006, 11:08 AM)
That'd be great, but you need to think outside of the human-box. Remember, the Xivai will primarily fight in the sea, and what little land technology they have will be crude and primitive compared to the existing land civilizations.

Imagine if there was an aquatic race living in Earth's oceans. All our high-tech ships, submarines, diving suits would look like kid's playtoys compared to that race's aquatic technology.

Causing floods is fine for some civiilisations, but when it comes to on-land fighting, how would you suggest Ysugtha get around? Obviously the legs wouldn't be as advanced as what was in the video, but it's more the basic design that I'm attracted to: what is essentially a weapons platform stomping around on spider/insect-like legs.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 14 2006, 01:08 PM
Oh the leg configuration yep. Thats the only thing I liked about it. Make it more fleshy though tongue.gif
Maybe these things can carry mini storm cannons around or maybe these thigns are what bring the sotrm cannons to bear down upon the enemy?

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 14 2006, 04:52 PM
Mouth cannons, perhaps? Both the Xivai and their weaponry should be heavily mouth-cannon laden. They're just awesome. Of course, none of this matters if Oathin never friggin updates again.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 14 2006, 04:58 PM
I know, I know, yesterday night I was writing it, but I heard my mom coming, so I put the laptop under the bed and pretended to sleep, but I actually fell asleep.

I PROMISE I'll update today. After I watch the Office at 8. Or maybe before.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 14 2006, 05:01 PM
You might want to make it sometime before that bomb that I placed in your bedroom while you were asleep goes off, just looking out for your best interests.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 14 2006, 06:48 PM
A storm gun pointing forword in the mouth isnt a good idea. Since a storm cannon rains water down or super potent acid facing forword wouldnt be effective for long term bombardment. I think the cannon would be on its back somewhere. Its mouth would hold a cannon but not a storm cannon. The storm cannons are long term seige warfare weps and dont work well even for immidiate artillery effect.

It would also have to be a biotech gun to fire the potent acid seeing as how its capable of melting through even steel quite quickly.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 14 2006, 07:29 PM
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Dec 15 2006, 02:48 AM)
A storm gun pointing forword in the mouth isnt a good idea. Since a storm cannon rains water down or super potent acid facing forword wouldnt be effective for long term bombardment. I think the cannon would be on its back somewhere. Its mouth would hold a cannon but not a storm cannon. The storm cannons are long term seige warfare weps and dont work well even for immidiate artillery effect.

It would also have to be a biotech gun to fire the potent acid seeing as how its capable of melting through even steel quite quickly.

Sure, sure. I just want mouth cannons. The other stuff you can decide on, I just want mouth cannons at some point in time.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 14 2006, 07:32 PM
Oh definatly most likely a short ranged (flamethrower style) mouth cannon that sprays acid everywhere. It would devastate infantry and vehichals alike. Or maybe the mouth cannons would be a variety of types. Like for long range we would have a traditional metal gun that would fire explosive rounds for anti tank style. Then another would be the acid cannon and another could shoot somthign else.

EDIT
I can picture out vehichals eating enemy soldiers to help maintain energy levels.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 14 2006, 07:40 PM
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Dec 15 2006, 03:32 AM)
Oh definatly most likely a short ranged (flamethrower style) mouth cannon that sprays acid everywhere. It would devastate infantry and vehichals alike. Or maybe the mouth cannons would be a variety of types. Like for long range we would have a traditional metal gun that would fire explosive rounds for anti tank style. Then another would be the acid cannon and another could shoot somthign else.

EDIT
I can picture out vehichals eating enemy soldiers to help maintain energy levels.

You know that tank-like thing in Halo that shoots the blue beam? I was thinking something like that for mouth cannons. We can start small, but I figure eventually we'll be able to make weapons that can handle the water resistance.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 14 2006, 07:42 PM
No, cannons of any kind would mostly be extremely ineffective. You are in water, remember? Any liquid would be diluted any rendered harmless in a few seconds. Acid would only be effective at extremely close range, and if diluted, it'd just irritate the enemy. If you want any mouth cannons, they should boil water and shoot it out in a boiling stream.

Stop thinking like land-dwelling humans, phools.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 14 2006, 07:49 PM
This is for land based assults where we need somthing mildely effective above the water. These mobile fortresses as me and twitch call them carry storm cannons to the surface. They can carry considerable other weapon mounts and once we stole some tech we could get a functional gun working for AV duties (av- anti vehichal). Then infantry attacking the fortress at clsoe range would bhe hit with the acid spray and any survivors would be dealt with the compliment of Xivai warriors each fortress holds. They would hold considerable ammounts of water and near a wtaer source could suckit up and use it for suppying itself and the troops. Our weapons are most likely going to be more close combat orrientated anyways so an acid gun would work in defensive perpouses.

Were not thinking like humans were thinking like somthing that wants to make an effective mobile fortress. I said the one normal gun would be there ONLY on mobile fortresses since it would be expensive and primarily AV. It will definatly not be a standard weapon for us so dont worry about it Oath.

EDIT
Its storm cannons rwach obve the waters surfcae and these forts would stay near the shore to suck up water to pump onto land to flood the area. Then and advance forword team terraforms the land to make the most out of the storm guns flooding properties. The mouth cannons are for when it makes a majore push or for defense. A majore push would be when we flooded a large portiona and move forword more.


Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 14 2006, 07:50 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Dec 15 2006, 03:42 AM)
No, cannons of any kind would mostly be extremely ineffective. You are in water, remember? Any liquid would be diluted any rendered harmless in a few seconds. Acid would only be effective at extremely close range, and if diluted, it'd just irritate the enemy. If you want any mouth cannons, they should boil water and shoot it out in a boiling stream.

Stop thinking like land-dwelling humans, phools.

How bout plasma cannons? Plasma can do just about anything clearly, the science fiction movies prove it.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 14 2006, 07:51 PM
THE XIVAI WON'T FIGHT ON LAND. PERIOD. What few military technology they have that involves the land will be to pester the enemy, attack their back, bother them, or force them to move. Xivai land technology will not win against land-dwelling creature technology.

If there was an aggressive underwater race on earth, humans wouldn't throw themselves into their territory. It's hard enough to survive in a medium that will crush you in a heart beat, let alone fight in it.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 14 2006, 07:56 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Dec 15 2006, 03:51 AM)
THE XIVAI WON'T FIGHT ON LAND. PERIOD. What few military technology they have that involves the land will be to pester the enemy, attack their back, bother them, or force them to move. Xivai land technology will not win against land-dwelling creature technology.

If there was an aggressive underwater race on earth, humans wouldn't throw themselves into their territory. It's hard enough to survive in a medium that will crush you in a heart beat, let alone fight in it.

Land is for conformists. As for using other creatures for furl, what I was thinking is that any machines we create could have a vacuuming undercarriage that would suck up enemy creatures and vaporize them, turning them into usable steam. Of course, since we're underwater, we could just have a steam-fueled superheating system that would then create more steam from collected water. If we could refine it enough we could probably get it to the point where these machines could be run for days on end.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 14 2006, 07:57 PM
Its our choice weather or not we get to. I never said they FOUGHT on land did I?

I didnt say the fortress ever went deep into land did I? NO!

What I said was the storm cannon goes above the water and stays on the shoreline the other guns are for defense. The only time it advances is when the land is significantly flooded it moves forword cleaning up whatever may be left. Redeploys and begins bombardment and flooding again. The terraformers would be small units untilising an unknown form of technology at this time to get the land to flood easier they would not be massive groups they would be small units 20-30 using hit and run tactics to carve up the land and pester the enemy. Once the area flooded rince repeat until no more land.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 14 2006, 08:46 PM
The storm cannon is un-movable - if it gets created. It is a huge, huge, huge, huge, stationary cannon that takes days just to rotate. And Twitch, that sounds a bit fanciful, don't you think?

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 14 2006, 08:49 PM
I also said mini storm guns!!!
Trust me this mobile fortress wil be necessary for advancing
its not like it LEAVES the water. The big storm guns aid it this is more a forward base type thing. Its not like were going to make this a standard vehichal it will be a specialized one being RARELY produced and being used only on the most important campaigns.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 14 2006, 09:03 PM
I'm not sure that mini-storm guns will be practical...but that does give me an idea...

When Xivai nanotechnology gets advanced, send billions of small, scarab-like nano-insects onto a target area that the storm guns can't reach, and the nano-insects will bury themselves in walls and the ground, and generate and release small amounts of silver iodide. If they come by the billions, then rain will fall....

They are also painstakingly difficult to get rid off.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 14 2006, 09:07 PM
Yes that is quite a good idea. I like, trust me the ministorm cannons would be useful in bolstering a specific areas water output enabling them to tacticaly advance at keyareas aslightly faster denying the enemy. Sound good?

Oh and join the next WW everyone here including osty will be joining. Its me and ostys first.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 14 2006, 10:10 PM
I'm not going to get into this debate, but I think my steam power idea is quite good and not a bit fanciful.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 14 2006, 10:20 PM
I think that Bain nets containing aggravated Rakeshi strapped to Xivai warriors would be tremendously effective. The aggravated Rakeshi would constantly produce unbearable high-pitched ultrasound, which, along with the Xivai's 'yelling', would drive any enemy warriors simply insane.

Of course, the Xivai would be trained from a young age to withstand the Rakeshi - a harsh, but necessary process.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 14 2006, 10:52 PM
We really need to discuss how fast we want tribal phase to go. I really don't see it continueing successfully at this pace. It's too slow, IMO.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 14 2006, 11:01 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Dec 15 2006, 06:52 AM)
We really need to discuss how fast we want tribal phase to go. I really don't see it continueing successfully at this pace. It's too slow, IMO.

And that has nothing at all to do with the fact that you update less than once a week, does it? Of course not. I was originally saying to go for 5 more updates, but at this pace that could take more than 2 months.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 14 2006, 11:09 PM
I hope you get swarmed by seagulls with wet anuses.

On a different note, check out this ad I just got -

maid marion
wishes you could make a wish at www.robinhoodfund.com

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Dec 14 2006, 11:49 PM
An idea for industrial-revolution era weaponry: hand-held steam guns. The Xivai would use their bio-electricity to boil water contained in a tank. The steam would build up, and once it reaches a certain pressure, the valve would release the steam, firing a projectile (most likely an Obsidian shard or a stone) through a tube. If there are no projectiles at hand, then the burst of steam would still be a potent close-range weapon. A later minor advance could be small canisters containing acid being used as the projectiles.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 15 2006, 12:13 AM
QUOTE (Seb (sjvan0) @ Dec 15 2006, 07:49 AM)
An idea for industrial-revolution era weaponry: hand-held steam guns. The Xivai would use their bio-electricity to boil water contained in a tank. The steam would build up, and once it reaches a certain pressure, the valve would release the steam, firing a projectile (most likely an Obsidian shard or a stone) through a tube. If there are no projectiles at hand, then the burst of steam would still be a potent close-range weapon. A later minor advance could be small canisters containing acid being used as the projectiles.

Personally I just think handheld weaponry is kind of teh lamb.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Dec 15 2006, 12:47 AM
Well I think mouth-cannons are teh lamb, for the following reasons:

1. You can only have one of them.
2. How the hell are you supposed to eat?
3. How are you supposed load it?
4. If it malfunctions, you could lose your head.
5. Recoil could produce kneck-snapping results.
6. Not to mention teeth-shattering.
7. It'd be dificult to arm yourself with it. With a hand-held weapon, you only need to hold it, but with a mouth-mounted weapon, you also need to strap it to your head.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 15 2006, 01:44 AM
1. You can only have one of them.

You don't need more than one if it works like it's supposed to.

2. How the hell are you supposed to eat?

It isn't active all the time. The barrel would just integrate with the gigestive system.

3. How are you supposed load it?

Plasma doesn't need to be loaded like lamb guns, but if the need ever arrived there could be a carriage for the ammunition and it would simply be ingested through a different way.

4. If it malfunctions, you could lose your head.

Well made weapons don't often malfunction to the point of explosion.

5. Recoil could produce neck-snapping results.

Perhaps if the Xivai were human babies.

6. Not to mention teeth-shattering.

Now you're just clawing at straws.

7. It'd be difficult to arm yourself with it. With a hand-held weapon, you only need to hold it, but with a mouth-mounted weapon, you also need to strap it to your head.

Not if it's installed directly into the mouth, and turning your head is a lot more intuitive and takes up a lot less of your handspace than firing a hand-held weapon. We want to free the tentacles up for strangulation and damaging, we don't want to use them all for just holding stuff.






Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Dec 15 2006, 02:03 AM
QUOTE (Twitchmonkey @ Dec 15 2006, 07:44 PM)
3. How are you supposed load it?

Plasma doesn't need to be loaded like lamb guns, but if the need ever arrived there could be a carriage for the ammunition and it would simply be ingested through a different way.

And where is the plasma supposed to be stored? If it's hot enough to damage enemies, then obviously it'd be too hot to store in the body.

Also, if it's fused with the body to the point where it's part of the digestion system, it seriously hampers versatility. With hand-held weapons you can make use of the latest technologies, while with fused-weapons, you're stuck with the one weapon for your whole life.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 15 2006, 02:06 AM
QUOTE (Seb (sjvan0) @ Dec 15 2006, 10:03 AM)
And where is the plasma supposed to be stored? If it's hot enough to damage enemies, then obviously it'd be too hot to store in the body.

A chemical reaction could occur on expulsion I suppose. Besides, it's friggin plasma, it doesn't have to be hot, it's plasma.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Dec 15 2006, 03:22 AM
If you want to convince me that mouth-cannons are the way to go, you'll have to explain how one would work. Where would the ammunition be stored? What is the propulsion system? Firing mechanism?

For example, my steam gun (it doesn't neccessarily have to be held. It could also be shoulder-mounted, or strapped to the side of the arm, or put anywhere else) is pretty simple. It essentially works as a cross between an early gunpowder-based gun, and an electric kettle. In the case of a non-hand-held weapon, special highly-conductive gloves would be worn on the hands (since that's where most of the electroplaques are, remember? Also, the gloves would be open-fingered, to allow use of the claws), which would be connected to heating elements inside a tank of water. As steam builds up, pressure increases, and once it reaches a critical point, a small valve opens to allow excess pressure to escape. Once the Xivai is ready to fire the weapon, the rifle-tube is opened, and the steam forces the projectile out at a high speed.

A later designe would be a projectile in a casing containing a liquid. The xivai's bio-electricity would be used to heat the firing chamber of the weapon. Once a certain temperature is reached, the ammunition is pushed up into a heat-sheilded "heat-lock" (kind of like an air-lock, only for heat) from a heat-shielded ammo clip, and then once the clip is sealed off again, it is pushed into the firing chamber, causing the liquid inside the casing to flash-boil, firing the projectile at a speed similar to modern-day human gunpowder weaponry (or higher, depending on the liquid used in the casing).

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 15 2006, 03:32 AM
QUOTE (Seb (sjvan0) @ Dec 15 2006, 11:22 AM)
-boring unimportant stuff-

It's friggin plasma. It doesn't even have to obey the laws of physics if it doesn't want to. I'm not going to explain to to it's dimensions or here it's manufactured or current pending litigation concerning its manufacture and sale because it's friggin plasma and those things just aren't important.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Dec 15 2006, 04:32 AM
I don't want all the details, just one basic thing:

Where the hell does the plasma come from?

It's not enough to just say "It's friggin plasma". If you don't even know the very basics of how your idea works, then you obviously haven't thought it through.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 15 2006, 07:04 AM
QUOTE (Seb (sjvan0) @ Dec 15 2006, 12:32 PM)
I don't want all the details, just one basic thing:

Where the hell does the plasma come from?

It's not enough to just say "It's friggin plasma". If you don't even know the very basics of how your idea works, then you obviously haven't thought it through.

What do you not understand about plasma? It comes from space and awesomeness and it's been there since the beginning of time and if we don't utilize it soon we're going to get totly pwned.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 15 2006, 02:30 PM
Twitch mouth guns seem impractical. MAYBE for somthing really really big they would be practical but for our foot troops I think its highly impracticle.

I was thinking a hand held gun that is a seperate organism but the Xivai picks it up and it molds to the Xivai forming a relationship with it. Allowuing the two to work in tandem the creature could send signals and warnings to the Xivai and since it melds to the hand when in use the only way to get it off is to chop it off. Then the other hand could be a close combat weapon that frees our tentacles for strangling and killing. Sound good?

Wow twitch is going backwords or somthing lately. Twitch if you can convince me of how it could work effectivly as in possible to expel plasma which is energy out of somthing gut and shoot it at the enemy then fine. Plasma isnt even a ball of energy its a stream simmilar to a flame BUT its energy and can melt through stuff. So baisicly you want mouth mounted plasma throwers? Capable of melting through steel or harder sumstances?

Okay Im going to have to say no at this moment in time, I may change my mind but it sounds redicolous even for me.

Posted by: smurfslayer Dec 15 2006, 03:19 PM
The Xivai need to be like the Combine from HL2. No not similar in the technological or aesthetic way. For those that don't know the Combine basically go throughout the universe (or even multiverse) enslaving and assimilating races, all the while using any technologies that the race has and combining it with their own. For example, the Combine soldiers that you fight in HL2 aren't true Combine at all. They are genetically and cybernetically changed humans.

Basically, the Xivai go to a planet, pwn all defenses, enslave all the races, and then begin the assimilation and probably flood the planet.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 15 2006, 04:12 PM
I think we will just destroy them they are not worthy of being slaves. And how would we make them slaves underwater?!

Anyways at best there fit for our farmed animals food AT BEST.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 15 2006, 05:45 PM
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Dec 15 2006, 10:30 PM)
Twitch mouth guns seem impractical. MAYBE for somthing really really big they would be practical but for our foot troops I think its highly impracticle.

I was thinking a hand held gun that is a seperate organism but the Xivai picks it up and it molds to the Xivai forming a relationship with it. Allowuing the two to work in tandem the creature could send signals and warnings to the Xivai and since it melds to the hand when in use the only way to get it off is to chop it off. Then the other hand could be a close combat weapon that frees our tentacles for strangling and killing. Sound good?

Wow twitch is going backwords or somthing lately. Twitch if you can convince me of how it could work effectivly as in possible to expel plasma which is energy out of somthing gut and shoot it at the enemy then fine. Plasma isnt even a ball of energy its a stream simmilar to a flame BUT its energy and can melt through stuff. So baisicly you want mouth mounted plasma throwers? Capable of melting through steel or harder sumstances?

Okay Im going to have to say no at this moment in time, I may change my mind but it sounds redicolous even for me.

Little cannons for littler organisms. All plasma cannons don't have to be huge. Nor does plasma have to be a flame-like stream, look at Halo, they have plasma cannons with beams and little plasma balls, and if Halo does it, it must be doable. Plus I don't see how have a plasma storage tank is any more or less plausible than have a hand-held weapon being integrated with their consciousness.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Dec 15 2006, 05:49 PM
But how does the plasma get from the storage tank to the mouth-cannon, considering that it's IN THE MOUTH and part of the digestion system?

Since you've consistently failed to explain a single thing about your weapon besides that it's a MOUTH CANAN and FIRES TEH AWSUM PLAZMAH, I'll just say now that the Xivai will have mouth-mounted weapons over my dead body.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 15 2006, 05:56 PM
Considering the Xivai can sense elctric currents its easily do able. Halo isnt very realistic now is it? A bomb capable of more destruction than a super nova? That cleanses all life yet still allows them to reseed and regrow free of flood YEA thats REAL plausible.

Right now there is no known way to even effectivly contain plasma I highly doubt the Xivai can develop somthing like it while were still on the planet and not reaching space with warp drives. its also highly impracticle because by the time it takes us to develop just a flamethrower style plasma weapon we could have easily used an acid based weapon that would be easier to biologicaly make and use and it would be far more potent due to the technology developed. I dont see plasma comming into effect until we mount on our spaceships in space by then we will have found a way to compress it into a sphere shot ad shoot it creating an effective space weapon but a poor planetside one.

Its a space weapon thats its only really effective use and thats IF we can mange to get it into a ball form shot even then it wont explode or cause collateral damage just burn through ships so its not even THAT effective compared to some other weapons that could be developed. It just isnt pluasible until we reach space age with mighty war vessels even then its a specialized weapon rather than a dedicated one.

My opinion and Im sure Oathins and many others. Well Oathin at least. Anyways with the technology of the Xiva were going to have mediocre weapons were taking a little here and there then combined with quality it balances it out and we get good weapons from both sides. However there still not the best if we focused entirely on one area and I personaly thinkt he advantages of a dual tech like this are great. but due to our less range combat ability ranged weapons will be highly specialized used only in small numbers melee is where we would dominate.

END!

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 15 2006, 06:01 PM
The tentacles are where the elctroplaques are, you sheep.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 15 2006, 06:02 PM
Who were you talking to?
EDIT
If me explain because I dont understand.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 15 2006, 06:04 PM
The Xivai use their tentacles to shock people. Seb said hands.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 15 2006, 06:07 PM
Oh....

Oathin would it be plausible to conect a living weapon to the Xivai thoughts using there ability to read electric signals? This would aid in the fighting seeing as it would be personal like a pet and the thing could have other senses the Xivai does not enabeling it to warn him. Could it work?

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 15 2006, 06:43 PM
Yes - in fact, that'd be much like Tyranid weaponry.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 15 2006, 06:46 PM
Remember guys - aquatic fighting means that ranged weapon will be miniminally effective. You'll be fighting aquatic races more often than land races - at least for a while, anyways.

Posted by: Calchexas Dec 15 2006, 06:49 PM
Also I apolgize for my lack of prenscence in this topic but that would require thinking. And we all know me+ thinking= bad. Also I would like to know when we are going to get into major wars Oathy... I like to do battles in my head... it soothes me...

Posted by: smurfslayer Dec 15 2006, 07:02 PM
Gamgee, we genetically engineer and assimilate the enemies then we flood the planet. Brainwashing should obviously be involved too.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 15 2006, 07:06 PM
No no survivors should be left. It would make the Xivai have weaklings the Xivai dont have weaklings even our slaves and weakest are strong. Besides slaves wont make quality builidings and I dont like the idea of a race thats whole beleif is being pure and strong then they bring in unpure weak slaves to do there work for them. Not Xivaiish smurf not at all.

Posted by: Calchexas Dec 15 2006, 07:16 PM
Brainwashing is cool Smurf but I actually think it is much more Crystalli then xavian because we could have people who don't worship nature like us. Conquest+ love of nature+ creatures who don't love nature =X... Like algebra. And the only logical answer is brainwashing.


Hmm that is the sixth time I have said lgical or illlogical ver the internet today... +6 Spock points.

Posted by: smurfslayer Dec 15 2006, 07:17 PM
Be intelligent now Gamgee. The Xivai greatest ability thus far has been our ability for symbiosis. This would be... forced symbiosis. Brainwashing, genetic engineering, cybernetics. Heck, the Ysugtha take on the traits of whatever they eat and their flesh can easily be grafted into other things. That in itself is immensely useful. We could Ysugtha that are cocktails of any worthy race we have ever found.

See the thing is Gamgee you are arrogant. The Xivai are powerful indeed but they will not be the only powerful race in the universe. I say the Xivai's motto is: "Destroy the weak, assimilate the strong."

Posted by: Calchexas Dec 15 2006, 07:20 PM
But if they were strong they would of won the war against the xivia. At least that's the way the fanatics would see it.

Posted by: smurfslayer Dec 15 2006, 07:22 PM
I said strong, not stronger. Races that put up a fight. That are worthy of being our slaves. Anything weaker, total annihilation. That is the Xivai way.

Posted by: Calchexas Dec 15 2006, 07:24 PM
But the ones who put up a fight would be worthy of being sacrificed to the presence not being slaves...

Posted by: smurfslayer Dec 15 2006, 07:27 PM
Think logically here, if they are strong and can put up a resistance to the Xivai then they have uses. If we destroy them all then we gain nothing. If we assimilate them we gain much. We can sacrifice some to the presence. And they wouldn't be slaves per se, we would force them to join us, as we did the Carcharas, the Ysugtha, and all of our other symbiotes.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 15 2006, 07:31 PM
Everything is going to try put up a resistance but they will all fall. I would rather assimilate creatures into our fold than weak worthless beings. Anyone who is defeated by the Xivai is not worth anything. What do you think I am going to do to the recently defeated and assimilated tribe? Give them a pat on the back and fucking cookie? No they will be lower grunts and cannon fodder the slaves if you will. The pure Xiva will rule the lessers will become our fodder and slaves all other sentient beings are unworthy of being used. We may find some animals we could put into the fold.

I will only brinawasht hem if it is particularily strong oponent one that came close to defeating. All others will not be assimilated ONLY the most worthy and that will be very rare.

Posted by: smurfslayer Dec 15 2006, 07:35 PM
That's what I mean Gamgee. The races that are near equal to the Xiva. The ones that we actually have something to gain from.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Dec 15 2006, 07:37 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Dec 16 2006, 12:04 PM)
The Xivai use their tentacles to shock people. Seb said hands.

I waqs just saying "hands", because that's the thing the graspers at the ends of the tentacles most resemble.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 15 2006, 07:39 PM
I call them graspers.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 15 2006, 07:55 PM
QUOTE (Seb (sjvan0) @ Dec 16 2006, 01:49 AM)
But how does the plasma get from the storage tank to the mouth-cannon, considering that it's IN THE MOUTH and part of the digestion system?

Since you've consistently failed to explain a single thing about your weapon besides that it's a MOUTH CANAN and FIRES TEH AWSUM PLAZMAH, I'll just say now that the Xivai will have mouth-mounted weapons over my dead body.

It gets expelled. The ammunition would be pushed out of it's storage tank and into position, wherever that position might be. That last part can be arranged as well.

QUOTE
Remember guys - aquatic fighting means that ranged weapon will be miniminally effective. You'll be fighting aquatic races more often than land races - at least for a while, anyways.


So basically what you're saying is that we're limited by human technology? That's going to make for a pretty lame space age. Just because no humans have invented ranged underwater weaponry that works well, doesn't mean it can't be done.

Posted by: smurfslayer Dec 15 2006, 08:10 PM
No but he has a point Twitch. Water is obviously denser than air. I don't know how you could make a ranged weapon that would be more effective underwater than above water.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 15 2006, 08:19 PM
They have points twitch. Really use the common sense mechanism I know you have.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 15 2006, 08:20 PM
QUOTE (smurfslayer @ Dec 16 2006, 04:10 AM)
No but he has a point Twitch. Water is obviously denser than air. I don't know how you could make a ranged weapon that would be more effective underwater than above water.

Okay, fine, but that doesn't mean you can't make a weapon that wouldn't still be effective underwater. Perhaps a weapon could be devised that would not be hindered by water resistance. However, I think requiring us to be able to explain scientifically exactly how this weapon works or being forced to just use human-level weapons is very limiting. If George Lucas had to make a technical diagram of how a lightsaber achieves a certain length and then ends, or else was forced to just use plain swords, Star Wars would be the suck.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 15 2006, 08:24 PM
This is nothing like starwars. Just a heads up there twitchy.

Plasma underwater would be fucking useless just so you know. As would anything I can think of. As I said big long range fire weapons are not going to be around for a looong time. Melee will be though its what we HAVE to specialize in, unless we make a torpedo but thats kinda useless since we have no subs. Not to mention to us a torpedo is slow, for an underwater attack that is.

Posted by: Calchexas Dec 15 2006, 08:24 PM
Hmm... wouldn't sound waves be effective underwater? And cranked to extremely painful levels... The sound wave gun!!!

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 15 2006, 08:26 PM
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Dec 16 2006, 04:24 AM)
This is nothing like starwars. Just a heads up there twitchy.

Plasma underwater would be fucking useless just so you know. As would anything I can think of. As I said big long range fire weapons are not going to be around for a looong time. Melee will be though its what we HAVE to specialize in, unless we make a torpedo but thats kinda useless since we have no subs. Not to mention to us a torpedo is slow, for an underwater attack that is.

Did I say I wanted to do this now? No, that would be stupid, obviously we aren't going to be able to build cannons even if we decide to for a very, very long time, but if the extent of our technology is going to be human-like tanks and machine guns, this game will eventually come to be made of suck and lose.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 15 2006, 08:26 PM
You mean sonic gun, and yes potentialy it would be effective. Its even better since we cant hear anything so we can crank it up more without suffering as much effects from it.

It would make waves throught he water and be quite painful shaking anything apart.

EDIT
No one has even mentioned a machine gun exept you twitch, a stom canon is a biological cannon thats massive REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY big its baisicly a hose that makes a flood. The minifortress things are forword lines and there obviously wont be alot of them. Human technology is nothing like this 0.o I have no idea what your talking about. Exept for the gun idea and melee weapon ideas I dont see much of a resembalance.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 15 2006, 08:28 PM
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Dec 16 2006, 04:26 AM)
You mean sonic gun, and yes potentialy it would be effective. Its even better since we cant hear anything so we can crank it up more without suffering as much effects from it.

It would make waves throught he water and be quite painful shaking anything apart.

This could be done the same way for a plasma gun. Just a blue ray of light that damages the target. How this works exactly? I can't say, but I'm not a scientists, and neither are any of you, and if we're required to be to play, this isn't going to work well.

QUOTE
No one has even mentioned a machine gun exept you twitch, a stom canon is a biological cannon thats massive REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY big its baisicly a hose that makes a flood. The minifortress things are forword lines and there obviously wont be alot of them. Human technology is nothing like this 0.o I have no idea what your talking about. Exept for the gun idea and melee weapon ideas I dont see much of a resembalance.


Humans have hoses, gamgee, we've had them for a while now. If the best we've got is a big hose, I'd say that's kind of lame.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 15 2006, 08:29 PM
That would be light AKA a fucking laser twitch. Lasers and plasma are two different things. Im no scientist but I know that at least.

EDIT
We dont use hoses as combat weapons. Its not ahose its a pump that shoots it into the air in essence yes but its a big fucking biological yasgutha thats shootingit!!!


Posted by: Calchexas Dec 15 2006, 08:31 PM
* Grabs popcorn to watch fight.* Want some Smurf? Anywho I am leaning towards Gamgee's side here but I am non xavian so what does it matter? Just a vote of confidence.


Edit

If I may infer hoses WERE used as a weapon of sorts during civil rights movements right before the civil war broke out. Very hot water and dogs to drive them off if I recall correctly.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 15 2006, 08:33 PM
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Dec 16 2006, 04:29 AM)
That would be light AKA a fucking laser twitch. Lasers and plasma are two different things. Im no scientist but I know that at least.

Great. You know, I'm really more focused on the aesthetic than the semantics. Obviously the scientific community (aka the Genesis forum) figured I was talking about "the clear, yellowish fluid portion of blood, lymph, or intramuscular fluid in which cells are suspended. It differs from serum in that it contains fibrin and other soluble clotting elements." when I was clearly saying all along what I wanted and how it should look. In summary, you all suck ass.

QUOTE
We dont use hoses as combat weapons. Its not ahose its a pump that shoots it into the air in essence yes but its a big fucking biological yasgutha thats shootingit!!!


Would a hose by any other name not smell as sweet?

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 15 2006, 08:36 PM
You mean energy plasma the OTHER kind. Not blood. Yes iuts energy and would be in a flame form it is baisicly like liquid lava but energy and it melts through things. Theres no way to get it to form a ball projectile even above ground the chances of it working underwater is zero.

A lazer? How do we get light exactly twitch? Were at the bottom of the dam ocean. Now if you guys had taken my suggestion to get luminous organs this could be possible but... alas no you never took my suggestion.

EDIT
So far your argument is looking weak youve brought up hoses.... were bound to have some sort of human related tech were fucking humans in real life. Get over it some things will slip in.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 15 2006, 08:37 PM
STORM CANNONS ARE NOT HOSES! And neither are they biological, but they could be in some way or form. They are massive, MASSIVE, cannons which shoot missiles of silver iodide into the atmosphere over the general area we targeted, causing it to precipitate.

We don't have to be scientifically accurate, just believable enough.

Posted by: smurfslayer Dec 15 2006, 08:38 PM
Guys there is a fatal flaw in all of this, Xivai can't have fire, metal, electricity or any other human technologies. We are going to have to invent new things and use mostly bio-tech to do anything, at least early on.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 15 2006, 08:39 PM
They can have metal and electricity. And steam.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 15 2006, 08:39 PM
Twitch is being compltely unbeleivable though. Thats the problem. I knew it worked some way like that it made it rain thats for sure.

Posted by: Calchexas Dec 15 2006, 08:39 PM
... and flood it. When the xaivians get into space I assume that would be their big awesome thing to do. They cover the whole world in water and claim it as their own eh?

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 15 2006, 08:39 PM
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Dec 16 2006, 04:36 AM)
You mean energy plasma the OTHER kind. Not blood. Yes iuts energy and would be in a flame form it is baisicly like liquid lava but energy and it melts through things. Theres no way to get it to form a ball projectile even above ground the chances of it working underwater is zero.

A lazer? How do we get light exactly twitch? Were at the bottom of the dam ocean. Now if you guys had taken my suggestion to get luminous organs this could be possible but... alas no you never took my suggestion.

EDIT
So far your argument is looking weak youve brought up hoses.... were bound to have some sort of human related tech were fucking humans in real life. Get over it some things will slip in.

What I'm saying, numbnuts, is that human technologies should not be the ceiling of our technology, of course we're going to have them, but you're too damn busy being stubborn to try to understand a damn thing. I don't know how we'll get light, or the ability to create it, but a lot can happen between now and the space age and I can't say what we can develop with time.

QUOTE
Twitch is being compltely unbeleivable though. Thats the problem. I knew it worked some way like that it made it rain thats for sure.


So basically you just have to have some vague idea about how your invention works, whereas I have to have scientific justification for every element of the design of mine? That makes sense, Gamgee.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 15 2006, 08:40 PM
Think outside of the human box, guys. Outside of the human box.

Also, how would you guys feel if I made the questions on the updates freeform? It'd cut down on the updating time about 50%, and allow you more creative freedom, at the price of thinking. Oh noez.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 15 2006, 08:42 PM
NOOO!!!

Never I dont want any format changes ever the last one almost kasploded the earth never unthinkable NO!!!

Okay now lets move on, twitch think think think. If you were from an underwater race and a great scientist and you heard of light for the first time would you think it could be laser? You never seen the sun what about "plasma"

The chance of it happening is sooooo slim its redicolous it just cant really happen.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 15 2006, 08:43 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Dec 16 2006, 04:40 AM)
Think outside of the human box, guys. Outside of the human box.

Also, how would you guys feel if I made the questions on the updates freeform? It'd cut down on the updating time about 50%, and allow you more creative freedom, at the price of thinking. Oh noez.

So long as half those questions aren't thinking up names for regimens and holidays.

QUOTE
Okay now lets move on, twitch think think think. If you were from an underwater race and a great scientist and you heard of light for the first time would you think it could be laser? You never seen the sun what about "plasma"

The chance of it happening is sooooo slim its redicolous it just cant really happen.


Yes, let's not be ridiculous, let's think of more rational weapons like shooting missiles from the bottom of the ocean to the clouds to cause such massive flooding that the water rises to a point where our enemies drown or are sucked in. That is just so much more plausible.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 15 2006, 08:45 PM
Not a format change, just no choices. I'd still be here to suggest choices, but I don't want to spend the extra half an hour sitting and thinking up choices for the update.

Posted by: smurfslayer Dec 15 2006, 08:47 PM
Guys you need to think out of the box more. No missiles, no lasers. The Xivai technology needs to be new. Things that no one has ever seen before.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 15 2006, 08:47 PM
Yes, the chance of life evolving somewhere in the gulf of the universe into forms comprehensible to the human mind with similar life-forms to Earth's ecosystem is really, very, common.

Stop being a pessimist, Twitch.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 15 2006, 08:47 PM
We never mentioned shooting missles ever. Your just making crap up now.... This argument is over. No offense twitch but I your acting like a complete fucking reatard making up your own points for argument. We havent even mentioned some of the stuff your throwing at us. This isnt even an argument any more so far the anti plasma/laser guys have it. Decision made so suck it up youl get over it. I did about the tentacles.

This fight is over.

EDIT
its fucking twitch thinking inside the box I havent mentioned anything human the closest thing was the storm cannon thats about it. Twitch is just being an idiot. Im sure he will get over it soon.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 15 2006, 08:50 PM
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Dec 16 2006, 04:47 AM)
We never mentioned shooting missles ever. Your just making crap up now.... This argument is over. No offense twitch but I your acting like a complete fucking reatard making up your own points for argument. We havent even mentioned some of the stuff your throwing at us. This isnt even an argument any more so far the anti plasma/laser guys have it. Decision made so suck it up youl get over it. I did about the tentacles.

This fight is over.

EDIT
its fucking twitch thinking inside the box I havent mentioned anything human the closest thing was the storm cannon thats about it. Twitch is just being an idiot. Im sure he will get over it soon.

"They are massive, MASSIVE, cannons which shoot missiles of silver iodide into the atmosphere over the general area we targeted, causing it to precipitate."

-OathinBlood

Hooked on Phonics, Gamgee, it just might work for you.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 15 2006, 08:50 PM
Yes, the storm cannons would shoot iodide missiles, or some form of hollow capsule, anyways.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 15 2006, 08:53 PM
Missle wouldnt be very good, I was thinking of a traditional shell. Blame that one Oathin. Shame on you Oathin tongue.gif

Still I consider this fight over most are disagreeing with you get over it and think of somthing better than plasma and use a better argument than. "awsome for the win rofl lol it pwns its made of win!!!"

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 15 2006, 08:54 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Dec 16 2006, 04:47 AM)
Yes, the chance of life evolving somewhere in the gulf of the universe into forms comprehensible to the human mind with similar life-forms to Earth's ecosystem is really, very, common.

Stop being a pessimist, Twitch.

How am I being a pessimist? I want to have these things, I want to have technologies beyond human capabilities, but if we're so far grounded in what humans go do presently, it'll never happen.

QUOTE
Still I consider this fight over most are disagreeing with you get over it and think of somthing better than plasma and use a better argument than. "awsome for the win rofl lol it pwns its made of win!!!"


This fight has only begun. Remember, Gamgee, at this point neither of our ideas can be implemented, but when they can, this fight will begin again. The reasons I like this idea, is because it would be a very cool, long-range weapon, potentially unhindered by water pressure.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 15 2006, 09:00 PM
Plasma? and a lazer?

I ahve no idea what youve been on lately but okay go think up somthing then.

The fight was over before it begun get over it.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 15 2006, 09:02 PM
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Dec 16 2006, 05:00 AM)
Plasma? and a lazer?

I ahve no idea what youve been on lately but okay go think up somthing then.

The fight was over before it begun get over it.

I appreciate your vow of confidence, but if you knew I won before this began, why did you still fight me? Quite futile.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 15 2006, 09:04 PM
Once again a mistake on your part. In all honesty lay off whatever your on I prefered you the old way a bit of common sense screwed onto your shoulders now your just... I dont know not you. Seems like that at least.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 15 2006, 09:09 PM
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Dec 16 2006, 05:04 AM)
Once again a mistake on your part. In all honesty lay off whatever your on I prefered you the old way a bit of common sense screwed onto your shoulders now your just... I dont know not you. Seems like that at least.

The difference now is that back then you had the good sense to listen, now you've just gotten overly megalomaniacal.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 15 2006, 09:14 PM
I still isten and have listened to your crazy rambling for the last hour. Youve wasted enough of my time. Get more concrete reasons and ways of how it would work and maybe we will start talking again. But the way you were defendinf it was childish. If you did it properly I would have listened. God I wasted so much time here. Im done this is it IM done with this until you get better points. Now please shut up and stop wasting both of our time because it wont go anywhere.

I think your a bit blind to the truth or your saying everyone isnt listening EVERYONE FUCKING DISAGREED WITH YOU

When that happens dont you think its time to change tactics and try explain it properly rather than just blindly saying its better. As I said Ill listen when/if you think of somthing good. Ive sat and listened quite enough to what youve been saying guess what the shocker is? I dont agree with you this time, its one of those times that I wont agree with you so stop pushing it it wont happen. I know your used to me agreeing with most of what you say but not this time. simple really.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 15 2006, 09:21 PM
It's largely a matter of exposure, Gamgee, I explained many aspects of my proposed design, and in fact seem to have a far greater bearing on it than you do about your siege hose. The reason your idea is so much more easily accepted is a function of the time people have been exposed to it. If you look back at the conversation, you'll find while people were initially outright rejected my idea, and it initially had certain holes, as it has been refined, the overall response has been lukewarm at worst. If I choose to bother continuing my campaign, I can easily convince the majority that this is a good idea.

The majority was initially with you for the sonar sensing aspect, but that didn't end up in your favor, did it? It's just a matter of time and explanation.If you have any further questions regarding this weapon, I'd be happy to answer them, but I've answered more than you give me credit for.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Dec 15 2006, 11:08 PM
Twitch, plasma weapons simply wouldn't work very well underwater. To get them to work above water would already require a magnetic field to go from the weapon to the target just to stop the densified plasma from blooming out, and even then you'd still need a way to get around the atmospheric resistance, which causes you to essentially end up with a plasma blow-torch. The atmospheric resistance under water would be even greater than that which is found above water, so it would make the blow-torch effect even more pronounced.

Plasma weapons might be good as enhancements to Xivian melee abilities, but as a long-range weapon, they simply wouldn't work well underwater.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 15 2006, 11:21 PM
QUOTE (Seb (sjvan0) @ Dec 16 2006, 07:08 AM)
Twitch, plasma weapons simply wouldn't work very well underwater. To get them to work above water would already require a magnetic field to go from the weapon to the target just to stop the densified plasma from blooming out, and even then you'd still need a way to get around the atmospheric resistance, which causes you to essentially end up with a plasma blow-torch. The atmospheric resistance under water would be even greater than that which is found above water, so it would make the blow-torch effect even more pronounced.

Plasma weapons might be good as enhancements to Xivian melee abilities, but as a long-range weapon, they simply wouldn't work well underwater.

Again, you're thinking in terms of human limitations. It doesn't have to be plasma exactly, I honest don't care about the specifics, make it a laser, make it a gift from the presence, I just think it would be cool to to have mouth cannons. The exact material that they shoot could be different, made up, or variable depending on what is available. You're all getting far too hung up on the properties and physics of the situation, and you're not thinking of the end result. Honestly, I don't care how it's done, but I do know we need some sort of ranged weaponry, and this would be a cool way to do it.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Dec 16 2006, 04:05 AM
Well then why the hell didn't you say that earlier? Now my opposition to the mouth cannon is not so much factual as matter of opinion. I just don't think that a mouth cannon is practical, nor is it menacing, nor is it really all that Xivian, and it's overall just a lame idea.

There's also other problems with them. For example, with a non-mouth mounted weapon, you can quickly arm yourself with any variety of weaponry, with a mouth cannon you're limited to just that kind of gun. What if it fired lasers, and the enemy forces were immune to laser fire? You'd be stuck with a useless thing fused to your face and you'd end up having to get a non-mouth mouted weapon anyway. Why not cut out the middle man and go staight to the non-mouth weapon?

Posted by: Nox Dec 16 2006, 09:58 AM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Dec 15 2006, 08:40 PM)
Also, how would you guys feel if I made the questions on the updates freeform? It'd cut down on the updating time about 50%, and allow you more creative freedom, at the price of thinking. Oh noez.

yes, please smile.gif

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 16 2006, 10:06 AM
Man twitchy.... just drop it for now.....

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 16 2006, 10:35 AM
To be honest, I sort of like mouth cannons. Perhaps they can be removable, just like offensive helmets or something.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 16 2006, 02:10 PM
QUOTE (Seb (sjvan0) @ Dec 16 2006, 12:05 PM)
Well then why the hell didn't you say that earlier? Now my opposition to the mouth cannon is not so much factual as matter of opinion. I just don't think that a mouth cannon is practical, nor is it menacing, nor is it really all that Xivian, and it's overall just a lame idea.

There's also other problems with them. For example, with a non-mouth mounted weapon, you can quickly arm yourself with any variety of weaponry, with a mouth cannon you're limited to just that kind of gun. What if it fired lasers, and the enemy forces were immune to laser fire? You'd be stuck with a useless thing fused to your face and you'd end up having to get a non-mouth mouted weapon anyway. Why not cut out the middle man and go staight to the non-mouth weapon?

And I think held guns are less intuitive and less menacing and just overall less cool. What's the point of having awesome tentacles when you just use them to hold stuff?

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 16 2006, 02:58 PM
What else arw we going to do with them? BESIDES shock people in battle, while we are a warrior race were not ALWAYS in a fight keep that in mind there will be those behind in the cities keeping our infastructure togeather.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 16 2006, 03:17 PM
user posted image
This is interesting...

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 16 2006, 03:31 PM
I realized somthing. Stuff moves slower underwater because of the presure and whatnot. The xivai will of course have gears and even they will move as though it were air (there made for it) what happens when they go above land will there stuff be faster moving due to less resistance and stuff?

Just a little thought I had.

Posted by: Seb (sjvan0) Dec 16 2006, 03:43 PM
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Dec 17 2006, 09:31 AM)
I realized something. Stuff moves slower underwater because of the pressure and whatnot. The xivai will of course have gears and even they will move as though it were air (there made for it) what happens when they go above land will there stuff be faster moving due to less resistance and stuff?

Just a little thought I had.

That's actually a really good point. We'd need some form of lubrication to stop the machinery from overheating due to increased friction.

Posted by: smurfslayer Dec 16 2006, 07:06 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Dec 16 2006, 03:17 PM)
user posted image
This is interesting...

I have that card in my deck! Woot!

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 16 2006, 07:53 PM
Me too! Woot!

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 16 2006, 11:34 PM
Okay guys, you gotta watch the movies - War of Worlds (The new one, with Tom freakin' Cruise.) and The Abyss, from 1993. The Xivai's first contact with humanity should be something like those two combined.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 16 2006, 11:49 PM
I have seen the first you mentioned yes that would be great. I see you took the suggestion of putting humans in somewhere. wink.gif

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 16 2006, 11:55 PM
The Abyss is great inspirational. I don't want to ruin the ending, but, suffice to say, you should rent it. It's not a bad movie in general, as well.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 17 2006, 03:45 AM
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Dec 16 2006, 10:58 PM)
What else arw we going to do with them? BESIDES shock people in battle, while we are a warrior race were not ALWAYS in a fight keep that in mind there will be those behind in the cities keeping our infastructure togeather.

What else do you do with a gun? Some things are only meant for killing, like cannons. Unless you want to make little kitten houses.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 17 2006, 07:39 AM
I never said we would hold the guns with our tentacles I said our ARMS

The tentacles could then be used for other things while our arms carry the weapon. Also I see our tentacles being highly useful out of combat in the construction of yasgutha AND metal technologies. Dont underestimate them as ONLY combat weapons there is much more use in them for fighting.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 17 2006, 09:48 AM
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Dec 17 2006, 03:39 PM)
I never said we would hold the guns with our tentacles I said our ARMS

The tentacles could then be used for other things while our arms carry the weapon. Also I see our tentacles being highly useful out of combat in the construction of yasgutha AND metal technologies. Dont underestimate them as ONLY combat weapons there is much more use in them for fighting.

I wasn't saying tentacles were only for war, I was saying guns are only for war, and the more appendages we take up holding weapons, the less that can be used for other purposes.

Posted by: imperialavenger Dec 17 2006, 12:57 PM
After a long absence I have returned!
If any remembers me that is.

When is the next update expected?
I'm ready to get back to my Crystalli Cowboys.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 17 2006, 01:23 PM
Jesus, it's a Christmas miracle. Welcome back, avenger. Feel free to vote on the last update - it's exam week for me, so probably no updates for the next few days.

Posted by: Calchexas Dec 17 2006, 01:24 PM
Nope. It was a Callie miricle Oathy m'boy.

Posted by: imperialavenger Dec 17 2006, 02:31 PM
Yeah Callie informed me the game was afoot. I gave up on it and though it was dead a few months ago......I'm sorry for my lack of faith master I shall meditate on this and become more one with the force.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 18 2006, 08:08 PM
Leviathan, watch that too.

Posted by: Nox Dec 19 2006, 04:01 AM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Dec 17 2006, 01:23 PM)
it's exam week for me, so probably no updates for the next few days.

Ditto over here.... sad.gif

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 19 2006, 04:30 PM
The Xivai should take a look at the Simic, from the world of Magic: The Gathering. Here's a 'flavor text' from one of their cards.

The most successful of Simic creations is cytoplasm, a living, symbiotic substance that feeds off genetic rhythms and strengthens its host in return.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 19 2006, 04:32 PM
Also, this is form them as well...

"We've bred out the shortcomings of the species' natural form and replaced them with assets of our own design."

Posted by: smurfslayer Dec 20 2006, 11:19 AM
Yes! I freaking love the Simic. They are everything that bio-tech should be.

For those who don't know much about them they are a guild in the world of Ravinca that collects and genetically engineers species on the planet as well as genetically engineering themselves with tons of bio-techness. Sometimes with the Simic the lines that seperate the creator from the creation are often blurred.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 20 2006, 01:39 PM
Yeah, biomancers and all. Good stuff, Smurf. To make up for my lack of updates, I've brought you guys some very cool images indeed.

user posted image
Very Ysugtha-ish. Technically, they don't have eyes, but hey, the Xivai are blind - they can only 'see' their basic shape through the electrical impulses of their nervous system, and since the Ysugtha are actually millions of tiny creatures, it'd be even more blurred. So Xivai artists just know that they are a vague mass with tentacles and mouths - the rest is left to their twisted imagination. I really like the poulpy-ness of this Ysugtha's tentacles.

user posted image
I know, I know, it's too mechanical for the Xivai, but I still think it's a powerful image which could provide the base of some very awesome Xivai submarine-freighters.

user posted image
This is a kinda weird image, but I think that the texture and aura surrounding it, it's general feeling (minus the letter in the middle), could be reminescent of a Xivai death star, or something along those lines.

What do you guys think?

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 20 2006, 09:59 PM
QUOTE
Very Ysugtha-ish. Technically, they don't have eyes, but hey, the Xivai are blind - they can only 'see' their basic shape through the electrical impulses of their nervous system, and since the Ysugtha are actually millions of tiny creatures, it'd be even more blurred. So Xivai artists just know that they are a vague mass with tentacles and mouths - the rest is left to their twisted imagination. I really like the poulpy-ness of this Ysugtha's tentacles.


Sort of reminds me of a large Ysugtha-touched. It has too much form to be a ysugtha by my definition, but it obviously isn't a Xivai, but I think it works for the Ysugtha-touched.

QUOTE
I know, I know, it's too mechanical for the Xivai, but I still think it's a powerful image which could provide the base of some very awesome Xivai submarine-freighters.


I don't think so. I think it combines bio and tech very nicely. Good find, Oath.

QUOTE
This is a kinda weird image, but I think that the texture and aura surrounding it, it's general feeling (minus the letter in the middle), could be reminescent of a Xivai death star, or something along those lines.


Looks like paper. Doesn't paper get soggy in water?

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 20 2006, 10:12 PM
Pretend it's white stone or something funky. And it's in space, you Californian/Californite.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 20 2006, 10:15 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Dec 21 2006, 06:12 AM)
Pretend it's white stone or something funky. And it's in space, you Californian/Californite.

But we're in water. And no matter what texture I try to place on it, all it really is is maybe a jagged rock or something.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 20 2006, 10:18 PM
Xivai Death Star.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 20 2006, 10:21 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Dec 21 2006, 06:18 AM)
Xivai Death Star.

No.

Just a jagged rock.

Perhaps with some enhancements it could be a lesser Xivai craft, but the Xivai equivalent of the Death Star would have to look much cooler.

I was just thinking, someone should start drawing what our weapons and supplies look like and those pictures should be linked in the official thread. It would really help flesh out tribal.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 20 2006, 10:24 PM
You're probably the most skilled in that area out of all of us, but I can give it a try. You'll just probably end up not getting it, if I have a go at it.

user posted image
I was thinking that the Ysugtha-touched would be like this, but alot cooler, of course, and more Xivai/Ysugtha-ish. There could also be a Xivian genetically-engineered kind of lesser Ysugtha, that would spread over a body really fast, to turn prisoners of war/slaves into Ysugtha-touched killing machines, or to 'put on' in last chance situations. A Fleshdress, or something like it.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 20 2006, 10:29 PM
If we ever dominate the humans and crossbreed the ysugtha with them, that's probably what it'll look like, if this game ever has humans. Personally I like the flesh dress for our own soldiers, it would just take time to get it to a point where they don't eat the wearer.

As for the illustrations, I'll try, but my graphic tablet doesn't work with this PC, I have a very hard time finding a usable scanner and will probably rarely ever get the chance, and I only have gimpshop.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 20 2006, 10:40 PM
user posted image
Look, something for the Crystalli. Something about this image kindles my Crystalli imagination, and I think a lesson of fashion for the Crystalli can be absorbed from this piece...the banners, tattos, and little brush would be very cool on Crystalli tribal warriors.

user posted image
http://stephenzxap.deviantart.com/gallery/ for the Xivai. I think it'd be uber-awesome if the Xivai genetics-artists crafted different species of jellyfish, to make something like t he spirit masks on the aforementioned website. It's not really a functionality thing, but I just think it'd be really cool-looking.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 20 2006, 10:42 PM
Guys, seriously, you gotta watch The Abyss. It's Xivai homework. You can see how cool the spirit masks would be at the ending - not that they're in the movie, but something vaguely similar is.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 20 2006, 10:55 PM
Not too sure about the spirit masks, and that lizard looks a bit too maniacal for the crystalli. The fashion might work though.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 20 2006, 11:07 PM
http://conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=63379&stc=1&d=1166144952
Watch out folks, the Xivai's genetically-bred parasites are here! They could be used to potentially soften up targets on the land, or to kill off targets that they can't get too. Man the parasite guns, warriors!

http://conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=63383&stc=1&d=1166145077
This is just kinda Xivian in feel. It's really not that cool at all, just Xivian. The textures are Xivian, I guess.

http://conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=63396&stc=1&d=1166145916
Hey, cut off the bottom third and this is a nice picture of a massive Ysugtha-building husk floating in the sea, suspended to rocks.

http://targeteart.com/Images/Concepts/alienHunter2.jpg
Love the textures here, not so much the thing itself. Textures are very Xivian.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 20 2006, 11:16 PM
The Xivai also need huge birth factories which the Geryon is hooked up too, and babies will go through a process like in the Matrix. With that, I bid you goodnight.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 21 2006, 12:05 AM
Good finds, Oath. We can probably do something with those. I really like the texture on the last one.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 21 2006, 03:06 AM
user posted image

A Xivai Death Star should look more like this, and if you don't agree you can die and go to hell, because I spent a damn eternity making this with a mouse and gimpshop.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 21 2006, 09:22 PM
You're lucky, Oath. I can't edit your account because you're the root admin, but so long as I still am able, anyone responding to that design unfavorably will incur my online wrath. I have one simple request: Don't fuck with me on this one. I spent a lot of time on it, and I don't need yours, or anyone else's shit.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 21 2006, 10:09 PM
Eh its okay, I dont care for the oposite eye colours doesnt go togeather to good. Actually it wouldlook pretty good if the left eye matched the right eye thats about it. I honestly cant see that thing in space however I can see it raising from the depths to keep watch above the water or even underwater to keep watch over the masses and ensure everything goes to plan.... thats actually awsome thinking about it.

If its on a planet its made of 120% win. In space... nah I couldnt see it my friend. Just the left eye looks a little off other than that looks good. Twitch dont even think of messing with my account I guarentee the results wont be pretty, think back to Krol somthing like that exept on a larger scale wink.gif

Besides Im not saying it sucks just the eye is off and it would be better at home on a planet somewhere. OHH massive yasgutha caverns and those thing are like the pilars that would be fucking sweet!!!!

As you can see its led to much inspiration just not space related tongue.gif

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 21 2006, 10:11 PM
What? You deleted my post? I hope your penis gets caught in a rat trap next time you get an erection.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 21 2006, 10:30 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Dec 22 2006, 06:11 AM)
What? You deleted my post? I hope your penis gets caught in a rat trap next time you get an erection.

I think you mixed up the sequence of those events, Oath.

@Gamgee: The reason I made two different sorts of eyes, is because it makes it look creepier, and more like a combination of parts rather than a single entity. I wanted to take this idea further, but I got frustrated. Honestly I don't know where it is. Might be deep underwater, might be in space, might be in another dimension.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 21 2006, 10:32 PM
Why are the colours inverted?

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 21 2006, 10:42 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Dec 22 2006, 06:32 AM)
Why are the colours inverted?

They're not, I just messed with the curves to change the distribution of color throughout the composition. It creates a more ethereal and otherworldly feel.

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 21 2006, 10:46 PM
I personaly think having two different eye colours just makes it look like it has a bad case of... some sort of odd pink eye.

Other than that looks great, the colouring in it makes me think of alternate demention just so you know.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 21 2006, 10:48 PM
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Dec 22 2006, 06:46 AM)
I personaly think having two different eye colours just makes it look like it has a bad case of... some sort of odd pink eye.

Other than that looks great, the colouring in it makes me think of alternate demention just so you know.

Well...Xivai architecture/structures aren't supposed to be pretty to look at.

@Oath: Why do you keep getting your posts deleted?

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 21 2006, 10:48 PM
Holy fuck Twitch, stop deleting my posts. I'm critisizing the idea, not the artwork.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 21 2006, 10:50 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Dec 22 2006, 06:48 AM)
Holy fuck Twitch, stop deleting my posts. I'm critisizing the idea, not the artwork.

Whatever you're criticizing, you're being an nonconstructive wanker about it.

QUOTE
Yeah, Xivai architecture is supposed to be skin-itchingly disturbing, like the feeling you get watching a maggot be pulled through a hole in someone's skin. It's NOT supposed to look like an octopus seen through a kaleidoscope.


Why don't you try to make something skin-itchingly disturbing with a mouse and a slow computer and then get back to me?

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 21 2006, 10:52 PM
I don't like the crazy colours. I prefer the texture in the alien picture above, for example. I understand the feel that you're trying to go for, but it's not working, for me or Gamgee.

And I'm the wanker?

Posted by: Gamgee Dec 21 2006, 10:52 PM
I didnt say I wanted it pretty it just looks goofy. People with pink eyes look goofy with this odd pink eye it looks dumb. It would look intimidating more if it was a solid colour to the eyes. Because the other colour makes you think its assembeled from different beasts but then you look at it and it has the same eyes it dawns on you"Wait its all one beast? YEARG" *imminent grusome death scene carries out*

Anyways I must be off, its late and Im tired. If anyone wants they can pm osty and let him know he is up I also need to know your intended update schedual for our rp Oathin. I know you may not be a frequent character in the story line but you need to let me know a general idea. I dont want you to apear too often but yet still make apearances here and there to let us know your still around. If you can get your first post out of the way then you will be set for quite awhile.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 21 2006, 10:53 PM
Well, I'm discussing the IDEA, not the ARTWORK. The art's fine, considering it was done by a mouse, but that's not what were discussing. Head over to Conceptart or something if you want artistic feedback.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 21 2006, 10:55 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Dec 22 2006, 06:52 AM)
I don't like the crazy colours. I prefer the texture in the alien picture above, for example. I understand the feel that you're trying to go for, but it's not working, for me or Gamgee.

And I'm the wanker?

No, now I'm just starting to think that you're a damn idiot that doesn't understand that I can't do the same quality work with a mouse, a slow computer, and gimpshop, as someone with more experience can with a graphic tablet and photoshop. Do you understand, Oath? That's a good boy.

QUOTE
I didnt say I wanted it pretty it just looks goofy. People with pink eyes look goofy with this odd pink eye it looks dumb. It would look intimidating more if it was a solid colour to the eyes. Because the other colour makes you think its assembeled from different beasts but then you look at it and it has the same eyes it dawns on you"Wait its all one beast? YEARG" *imminent grusome death scene carries out*


So you don't like the "constructed from multiple creatures" look? Personally I think it's a lot more menacing than a more unified structure.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 21 2006, 10:59 PM
Well, I'm discussing the IDEA, not the ARTWORK.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 21 2006, 10:59 PM
Well, I'm discussing the IDEA, not the ARTWORK.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 21 2006, 10:59 PM
Well, I'm discussing the IDEA, not the ARTWORK.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 21 2006, 11:03 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Dec 22 2006, 06:59 AM)
Well, I'm discussing the IDEA, not the ARTWORK.

I don't care if you're discussing the best way to kill a gypsy, if its something I spent a good deal of time on and you're going to be inflammatory and ot take the time to generate a thought-out response, you can go screw yourself and Lovecraft.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 21 2006, 11:05 PM
ZOMG TWITCH DAT IS LIEK TEH BEST EVA OMG OMG OMG CAN I GET A PRINT OMG LOL LOL ROFL IM GONNA TELL MAH FRIENDS ABOOT HOW GOOD AND CREATIVE U R!!11!!1! LOL ROFL!11!111

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 21 2006, 11:08 PM
So, Twitch, what do you think of my Matrix-esque baby factory that the Xivai Geryon is hooked up to? All Xivai larvae are processed there and given implants and other things.

List of possible implants can be found http://uk.games-workshop.com/tyranids/knowyourfoe/1/

Awesome Xivai-weaponry ideas can be found http://uk.games-workshop.com/tyranids/bio-weapon-thesis/1/.

Posted by: Twitchmonkey Dec 21 2006, 11:10 PM
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Dec 22 2006, 07:08 AM)
So, Twitch, what do you think of my Matrix-esque baby factory that the Xivai Geryon is hooked up to? All Xivai larvae are processed there and given implants and other things.

List of possible implants can be found http://uk.games-workshop.com/tyranids/knowyourfoe/1/

Awesome Xivai-weaponry ideas can be found http://uk.games-workshop.com/tyranids/bio-weapon-thesis/1/.

I like the idea, but I don't think we should directly copy any tyranid stuff. We can use variations, but I want to maintain the uniqueness of the Xivai.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 21 2006, 11:14 PM
That's a given.

Well, time to go eat curry now. Good ol' curry.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 25 2006, 11:37 PM
What would you guys think if I left out the standard 'several ingenious members of the *state race here* society have came up with some innovative ideas including *the past votes*. It's basically the same everytime, and would cut down once again on the updating time.

What I'm basically trying to do is cut down on what's not needed on the updates, to get them down to a more manageable size where then I can schedule them into my daily life better.

You'd be doing a great service for yourself and me to tell me what you think can be dropped off.

Posted by: OathinBlood Dec 26 2006, 01:31 AM
user posted image
Something about this guy is inexplicably Xivian. I think it's the 'inside-out look, where you can see the bulges of his muscles and extrusions of his bones.

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