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Title: Genesis General Discussion
Description: Thoughts and ideas for the Cryst/Xivai.


OathinBlood - November 12, 2006 07:37 AM (GMT)
I've been thinking, and I want to change the general image of the Carcharas. Previously they were bad-ass starfish, who happen to have claws and mouths and be parasitic. Now I want them to more closely resemble Earth's pycnogonids, also known as sea spiders. I've recently been looking at some deep sea photography, and some of these guys are really spindly and creepy looking, and I think would make more logical sense as well as look way cooler on a Xiva. Check this out -
user posted image
Now imagine that, but black, slightly bigger, and Carcharas-it up a notch. Thicken the legs a little, but not too much, add some claws and a hell of a mouth at the bottom - I think that would look so much cooler than the current starfish-like Carcharas.

Seb (sjvan0) - November 12, 2006 07:41 AM (GMT)
*Looks at weird spider-like creature*
*Adds carcharas features in imagination*

AHHHHHH!

OathinBlood - November 12, 2006 07:45 AM (GMT)
Hooray, it is scary!

Also, I want clearance on the Xivai's approach to technology in the future. Do they reject technology and want only biotechnology, like Star Wars' Yuuzhan Vong, or will they combine both, like....the....uhhh....Borg? (Sorry, I'm not a Star Trek fan.)

Seb (sjvan0) - November 12, 2006 07:49 AM (GMT)
I'd say combine both. The Xivai are all about being the best killers they can be, and if tools and other non-biotech things help them to kill, then they'll most likely use it.

OathinBlood - November 12, 2006 07:51 AM (GMT)
Makes sense. So, Seb, are you going to pick up the Tanaxai, or are you going to let sleeping dogs lie?

OathinBlood - November 12, 2006 08:27 AM (GMT)
I have a picture of warfare for the Xivai, when they reach a period of time that we, right now, would consider 'modern', - or maybe a bit past modern. Or alot past modern, but not any major off-planet stuff yet.
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The Xivai will invent COLOSSAL guns that stem up from the deep sea-floor to the surface, guns that look somewhat like two-barreled anti-aircraft guns. There will be about five over the whole planet, but they are so vast and integral to the Xivai, that they will probably be the most heavily defended strongholds of the Xivai, perhaps being at the center of major Xivai 'cities'. These guns will run off steam and thermal energy from an unthinkable amount of hot-water vents on the sea floor, and their purpose - heh, here comes the good part - their purpose will be, simply, to create rain. They'll fire huge shells of Silver Iodide into the atmosphere, and that will cause huge amounts of rain to fall on the area which they have specified.

Rivers will overflow, the sea level will ride, and dams will break. This, combined with special Xivai terraforming technology that will cause tsunamis and earthquakes, will wreak havoc among the land that the Xivai have targeted. As the water level rises, the Xivai will swim in, and destroy anything that is submerged. To keep from being seen, they will breed special breeds of a rapid-breeding black deep-sea jellyfish, and release them into key areas that they have 'seeded'. (Seeding an area refers to submerging it, if it wasn't previously underwater.) The jellyfish will spread rapidly, and soon, the water will appear black. The Xivai will use these as cover, and send infantry to eliminate any threat.

Also, by this time, the Xivai will have developed powerful water filtration/purification systems, which will render harmless any poison released into the water. It does not matter whether the jellyfish die or not, since their bodies are only used for cover, living or not.

These warfare tactics will force the Xivai's enemies to migrate to the highest areas of the land, which will be very impractical and difficult. The alternative is migrating to large ships, but it is a risky idea, since being in a ship is being amidst the Xivai's best terrain. Most boats will be destroyed from the bottom, or harassed until they are forced to go back to land.
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So, what do you think?

Seb (sjvan0) - November 12, 2006 09:08 AM (GMT)
I do believe that that idea is made of win and awsome. Would like to see more use of symbiotes, though (although I guess it would be implied that most of the symbiotes were helping the Xivai under the water).

OathinBlood - November 12, 2006 09:11 AM (GMT)
Coolios. Now answer the post above that post.

Seb (sjvan0) - November 12, 2006 09:25 AM (GMT)
Not quite sure, to tell you the truth. I'll try writing some stuff and seeing how it feels.

OathinBlood - November 13, 2006 01:15 AM (GMT)
Come on, guys. You say you want Genesis alive, yet you won't discuss it?

Gamgee - November 13, 2006 01:34 AM (GMT)
I dont think things would just change like that... while I do like the way they look (new one) I dont like how they magically changed. It doesnt fit with the game you know?


Oh and for there warfare tactics those would work until we can actually harness a way to go above ground. Since it is easier to go up rather than down. Not to mention we already have a minor poison filtering ability.

OathinBlood - November 13, 2006 02:00 AM (GMT)
It's not like there's anyone watching over canon strictly, and making sure it's accurate. Plus, this way, it's logically more correct, and it looks cooler. Just a little update of it's looks, like superheroes do.

Plus, I checked, and there were no evolutions that would only apply if it had a starfish body.

Gamgee - November 13, 2006 02:57 AM (GMT)
...... rhine already drew them they looked starfish you said it was a star fish its been a "killer starfish" since we got it qwhy change to killer under watter spider? It doesnt sound unexpected.... more cliche than anything. Would you expect a fairly inocent starfish of being one of the most deadly parasites? NOOOPE! Would you expect an evil looking underwater spider YEP!!!!!!!

I like the old look better anyways. They both look cool but wjhen it comes down to it I prefer the starfish look.

OathinBlood - November 13, 2006 04:36 AM (GMT)
Rhine didn't draw it, and anyways, I've seen killer parasite starfish in a game anyways. Call of Cthulhu, mutha-sucka. On the island, in the prisons, they jump on you when you get close.

Spiders are cliched, but sea spiders are not. Sea spiders are very different from spiders. In fact, they're not even arachnids. Plus, as said, logical sense would make them sea spiders - if I knew about sea spiders at the time, they'd be that, instead of starfish.

I'm still on the sea-spider side of them for canon.

OathinBlood - November 13, 2006 07:22 AM (GMT)
user posted image
--------------------------------------------------
With some adaptations, such as submerging it underwater, making it blacker, grimier, and far more organic, I think this would make a very menacing Xivai city. I like the look of the evenly spaced vent-things - water purification, perhaps? Or maybe a fountain system for phytoplankton, to feed the Ysugtha buildings?

Seb (sjvan0) - November 13, 2006 07:48 AM (GMT)
Gamgee: The old starfish form of the Carcharas were more suited to the old style of Xivai (ie, before we got the exoskeleton). The new spindly/spikey/spider-like Carcharas are more suited to the current Xivai form.

OathinBlood - November 13, 2006 09:00 AM (GMT)
And we did vote for alot of 'Carcharas adapting to our newer form' things...anyways, what do you guys think of the city?

Gamgee - November 14, 2006 09:41 PM (GMT)
Fine whatever.... city looks good.

OathinBlood - November 15, 2006 05:31 AM (GMT)
user posted image

Okay tourists, please look at the third brown robot to the right, from the top. The one with the mining pick in his hand. I think that the Xivai, if they have any land robots, should have something like that, sent in teams for mining/destroying work on land - say....destroy a dam, or dig a hole, or something. Just something to help spread water around. If attacked, they'd probably be able to hold their own for a little while, but ultimately, be doomed in the end - their sole purpose is to undermine strategic points on land.

OathinBlood - November 15, 2006 05:42 AM (GMT)
user posted image

This just kind of inspired me to think about the Xivai's spacefaring technology. Not much to say on here, but I have some food for thought. Imagine Xivai fighters, blitzing through space firing here and there - then imagine one getting shot and blowing up - but no fire. Instead (completely soundless, because in space there is no sound), the hull kind of shatters apart from the inside out, and what's left is a large glittering sphere of water, floating aimlessly in space...since the Xivai will fill their cockpits with water, presumably. Awesome, or no?

Seb (sjvan0) - November 15, 2006 07:01 AM (GMT)
I think that the brown robot in the very middle of the robot picture would be a better one, provided the spear point thing were replaced with a drill head.

Gamgee - November 15, 2006 02:15 PM (GMT)
Oathin search pf deflier in warhammer 40k. Preferably on gamesworkshop. I pictured Xiva troop suits to look like that. They can definatly hold there own but unless they can get back there ultimitly doomed.

EDIT
Heres a good pic.
http://uk.games-workshop.com/chaosspacemar...aos-defiler.jpg

OathinBlood - November 16, 2006 12:52 AM (GMT)
No, the Xivai will absolutely phail in land technology. Think of it - it'll be tough enough to build it, let alone test it properly. A good Xivai land machine will be near impossible to make, and will truly require an innovative mind and approach to making it.

The way I see it, the Xivai will have one or two tried-and-true machines that will help them flood the land so they can bring in the big guns, but will not assault from water, because that is doom-phail. They will only assault IN water.

Seb (sjvan0) - November 16, 2006 02:00 AM (GMT)
By the way, I thought of another possible land unit for the Xivai: A large, heavy, tracked vehicle with large spade-like protrusions on the tracks. It uses these to tear up the ground, and then drops explosives in the trenches it leaves behind. These explosives make the trenches even larger. Then when the Xivai fire the rain-cannon, they fill up, becoming rivers that act as access points for Xivai to launch shorter-range weaponry from.

Gamgee - November 16, 2006 02:59 AM (GMT)
We need some sort of suite for our men.... or xiva... not just vehichals thats extremely hindering.

Think about it would it be easier to capture or kill a group of soldiers that are hiding out of reach in a cave with a big ass tank or would it be easier to go in with small armored suites to clear them out.

OathinBlood - November 16, 2006 04:56 AM (GMT)
Seb, that's a brilliant idea.

Gamgee, you're right, but think about the impractibility of such a suit being developed by the Xivai, a deep-sea dwelling people. That'd be like us humans developing a suit for walking in the deep-sea, which we haven't done yet. We have made a suit for walking underwater, like the one in Bioshock, but not one for such extremes like that.

And even if the Xivai did, that technology would be immeasurably inferior to the technology of their enemies on land. Suits go boom boom if attacked.

OathinBlood - November 20, 2006 03:51 AM (GMT)
Come on peeps, come up with your own ideas too. You want Genesis alive, yet do nothing to help it? That doesn't make me want to update.

Gamgee - November 20, 2006 05:02 AM (GMT)
humans arnt Xiva they are a completely different mind set litteraly. If you think about it evolution wise our brains are very different.

I was thinking along the lines of the suit being an extension of our carapace so that it is not to big and clunky but enough to get around in.

We may specialize in water but long term seige warfare will take along time and to make small advances on land into big lakes and such would be extremely helpfull. It would keep the land forces distracted. Not to mention going above the water in some form will be needed to develop some essential technologies for space flight. Theres everything to gain and not much to lose from making these suits. OH and of course its not a standard issue battle suit.

The other races of the land will most likely invent ways to come down to us but I admit them coming down in armoed suites would be suicidal. Its always harder going down than it is to go up.

OathinBlood - November 20, 2006 06:11 AM (GMT)
I agree with Gamgee. It'd be cool if the suit looked like one of those first deep-sea diving suits, but with four legs or something wacky like that.

Nox - November 20, 2006 12:20 PM (GMT)
http://www.fisicx.com/riven/images/riven046.jpg <--this, while not nessecarily Crystalli or Xivai, looks pretty cool

http://www.fisicx.com/riven/images/riven047.jpg <--the inside

You may recognize this as the rebel base in the game 'Riven'

Seb (sjvan0) - November 20, 2006 02:26 PM (GMT)
Okay, picture this: a small-ish platform consisting of a Ysugtha chassis, several hydraulic legs protruding from said chassis, along with some tubes made from the same Ysugtha as the chassis, leading up to an obsidian (or Ysugtha, or hardened mucus, etc) faceplate through which to breath. The Xivai would sit atop the Ysugtha chassis, which would be a specially grown variety of Ysugtha which would have a large, hollow area in which to store water, and several tubal sections extending up to the faceplate. The Xivai would move the Ysugtha by transmitting shocks to certain nerves, which would activate the hydraulics in the legs.


The use of Ysughta flesh provides a chassis that is tough enough to withstand attacks, yet flexible enough to maneuver over difficult terrain. It would also be self-repairing. To get an idea of how it would look, imagine a convertable car, only replace the wheels with six legs and the car's body with flesh. However, the Ysugtha chassis also means that the vehicle would only be useful on land for a few days, and it would be rather difficult to get it there through the water at any great speed. I guess it would probably be best used as an invasion vehicle brought over on a carrier.

Also, am I the only one that sees augmented Ysugtha as being the primary shock-troop vehicles on ground? Imagine an AT-AT from Star Wars stomping towards you. Now replace the main body with a mass of purple flesh and muscle, gaping, tooth-filled maws, and tentacles as thick as tree trunks, and you have one of the most terrifying vehicles ever created. It'd stamp its way onto the battlefield, crushing everything under foot and leaving a desolate landscape in its wake. Enemy soldiers would flee from the earth-shaking footfalls, which would be felt from over a kilometre away, and heard even from further. The ultimate moral crusher.

Gamgee - November 20, 2006 10:01 PM (GMT)
Since we will not be developing land based homes for obvious reasons another useful tactic which relates to the flood cannons above. Load up an extremely potent acid and launch it over a base or city to invlict considerable damage.

I actually think Yasgutha will be shock troops due to there bigger size ad need of water. Any vehichal that has a mix of biology in it would be a more straighht up attack vehichal. Where as the mechs would be for quick hit and strike and for more longer bases missions.

With a fusion of bio tech and normal tech we can make a wide range of vehichals. The exreme technological ones like the mech suits and then ones that are almost all yasgutha. Or balance of both, it allows for great flexibility for us :nod:

smurfslayer - November 20, 2006 11:44 PM (GMT)
Yup definitely. And of course there is always the possibility of us finding a new symbiote.

OathinBlood - November 21, 2006 12:16 AM (GMT)
...purple?

Gamgee - November 21, 2006 04:47 AM (GMT)
Wait what? If that was spam Im disapointed. Mauinly because you wanted us to discuss genesis now we are. Its great then you came in and say purple. I know its your forum but its not encouraging.

If it was a genuion question Im also mystified as to what you mean.

Seb (sjvan0) - November 21, 2006 05:20 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Nov 21 2006, 10:16 AM)
...purple?

I was under the impression that the Ysugtha were dark purplish-brown.

Seb (sjvan0) - November 21, 2006 10:02 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Gamgee @ Nov 21 2006, 08:01 AM)
I actually think Yasgutha will be shock troops due to there bigger size ad need of water. Any vehichal that has a mix of biology in it would be a more straighht up attack vehichal. Where as the mechs would be for quick hit and strike and for more longer bases missions.

That's pretty much what I meant. Due to their dependance on water, the Ysugtha vehicles could only be used for a few days at most. Xivai tactics will revolve around causing the maximum amount of fear, and Ysugtha vehicles will provide that in spades. They might not actually be the best in regards of physical damage, but their main purpose will be to crush the morale of the enemy troops in order to make them easier to kill.

Also, I think the Crystalli's modern-day infantry weapons will consist of mainly rapid-firing, air-powered flechette guns that fire needle-sharp crystal shards (if you've played C&C: Renegade, the tiberium flechette gun is pretty much what I'm talking about), knives and swords made from the tougher crystal, and a whip made of highly-strung, extremely tightly-bound vines.

Another possible weapon for the Xivai to use in their rain-cannons is traces of bacteria that thrive in low temperatures, but are also dangerous to the target species. They could spread disease in the rainfall.

Gamgee - November 21, 2006 09:05 PM (GMT)
I think the Xivas control of electricity will lead to some interesting weapons developments. Also tactics for interogastion would be good since we can semi read minds.

For a long battle Xivai will rely on mech suites and vehichals that arnt biological because in a long fight there wont be time to go back for water time and time again. There suites would enable pronlonged assaults while the Yasguths stuff would be brought in to induce fear.

Twitchmonkey - November 21, 2006 09:33 PM (GMT)
Mechs are teh lamb. There is a way to do everything biologically, though some pure tech implants and bits would add greatly to the coolness and fear factor of the Xivai, mech suits would be very lamb.

OathinBlood - November 22, 2006 12:46 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Seb (sjvan0) @ Nov 21 2006, 05:20 AM)
QUOTE (OathinBlood @ Nov 21 2006, 10:16 AM)
...purple?

I was under the impression that the Ysugtha were dark purplish-brown.

You know when you have a funny feeling in your nose, and you pick it, and can feel a huge booger, but are frustrated that it's just beyond your reach? And hours later, you manage to pick it out?

That's the colour of the Ysugtha.

Maybe I went too in-depth...




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