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 General Topics ( September 2006 - April 2007), Used for general discussions
K.P.
Posted: Apr 13 2007, 05:30 PM


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Nifong's Attorneys to Argue for Dismissal of Ethics Charges

<snip>
This is the very last paragraph.

Also Friday, a defense attorney retrieved the $100,000 bond posted by each of the former defendants, said Jermaine Patterson, head bookkeeper with the Durham County Clerk's Office. The players were originally released on $400,000 bond, though a judge reduced the amount to $100,000 for each player last June.

http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/1271908


--------------------
Reade Seligmann--My reputation is mine to destroy and no one else.
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Darcy
Posted: Apr 13 2007, 05:39 PM


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QUOTE (white_fang @ Apr 13 2007, 05:09 PM)
QUOTE (Jim @ Apr 13 2007, 05:04 PM)
I think the earlier analysis of Brodhead's performance being based on his background is nice.  BUT there are some very strong signs that Board Chairman Steel (and maybe others on the boad of trustees) controlled the University's response.  Their view was to protect Duke, even if innocent men went to jail.  When their first instincts were quickly swamped by events and information, they did not correct course or do the right thing.  That strong belief that Duke is more important than one or more individuals, seasoned with a healthy dose of ego, paralyzed them on the prior flawed course.  Great men and institutions may have many virtues, but if courage is not among them, the sun is setting on their greatness.

Jim, I could not agree more. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, they will do to redeem themselves. What can they do?

They can do the following:

1. Apologize to Reade, Dave and Collin and their families (a real apology not something like the fake one Nifong offered)
2. Pay their legal fees
3. Demand Nifong's immediate resignation
4. Condemn the "Listening Statement"
5. Criticize G88 for their out-of-control actions and statements on this case
6. Reward Professor Jim Colemen for his bravery

and much more…

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LIZ
Posted: Apr 13 2007, 05:42 PM


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Katherine Jean doesn't "get it" if she thinks those boys would have entered into a plea agreement.

They are and always have been innocent of charges! Geez! They weren't dependent on the exculpatory DNA evidence of the male sperm bank residing inside Precious. Everything pointed toward their innocence-- not just the fact that Precious had lots of sex with lots of others and not with any of the team.

The boys knew the truth and the truth was the charges were totally made up. When I read what Katherine Jean said, it bothered me. "Plea bargain" was never a reality. Why would it be?

As to my analysis of why I think Brodhead approached the crisis the way he did, someone said it was "nice." ------- (LOL) I wasn't trying to be "nice" as in "pleasant," or did you mean "nice" as in "trivial?" ( LOL)

I agree that the BOT was willing to throw overboard whatever they thought was sinking the Duke ship. Ruthless? Yep.



I know I have said this before but my intuition is that initally the President and the Chairman might have bought into the "something happened in that house" tale.

I figure they thought there was prostitution involved. So, naturally, they thought the DNA of Duke students would show up in the Crystal sperm bank. When it didn't, then and only then, I think, they entertained the possibility that the boys were telling the truth all along.

Why they would not believe 46 boys' word at the outset is mystifying to me! Yet, I believe they did not accept their word and thought it was going to come down to a he said/she said-- a Kobe Bryant debacle.

They didn't believe their own studnets and they had plenty of support for not believing them because of the complaining Trinity Park residents, the faculty who hated this type of student -athlete, and the students on campus who so eagerly joined community activists. So many were so sure that "something happened."

What is tragic is that the judgment of the President and of the Chairman are so flawed. They didn't believe the kids and then later when they knew unequivocally that the tale was a hoax, they were still willing to sacrifice the boys rather than confront the injustices done the kids and also admit their own stupidity.

And so, lessons are learned. Dr. Brodhead must go. Others too but it must begin with him. Like Nifong, he was the wrong man for the job.
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K.P.
  Posted: Apr 13 2007, 06:18 PM


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Bar won't drop key Nifong charge
<snip>
Members of a disciplinary panel of the N.C. State Bar today refused to drop the most serious charge against Durham District Attorney Mike Nifong — that he withheld crucial DNA evidence favorable to Duke University lacrosse players accused of rape.

There are clips of the hearing on the right hand side of this article.

http://www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/563741.html


--------------------
Reade Seligmann--My reputation is mine to destroy and no one else.
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GPackwood
Posted: Apr 13 2007, 07:19 PM


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QUOTE (LIZ @ Apr 13 2007, 05:42 PM)
The boys knew the truth and the truth was the charges were totally made up. When I read what Katherine Jean said, it bothered me. "Plea bargain" was never a reality. Why would it be?

Why they would not believe 46 boys' word at the outset is mystifying to me! Yet, I believe they did not accept their word and thought it was going to come down to a he said/she said-- a Kobe Bryant debacle.

What is tragic is that the judgment of the President and of the Chairman are so flawed. They didn't believe the kids and then later when they knew unequivocally that the tale was a hoax, they were still willing to sacrifice the boys rather than confront the injustices done the kids and also admit their own stupidity.


Good comment.

When I first heard about the party and the arrests I looked at the news release and knew that something was seriously amuck.

The crime did not fit the guys.

Actually, the G88 described a crime that I would associate with guys from North Carolina Diesel Tech U. if there is such a place.

Then, Nifong did the same.

It all just sounded like a group of adults who don't understand college age students in 2007 got together and read a book of fiction about college age guys in Alabama in 1956.

Plea Bargain in 2007? These guys? Hardly!

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LMB
Posted: Apr 13 2007, 07:52 PM


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I think Katherine Jean was talking more generic about any plea bargain concepts. I believe she was trying to point out that the law does not have two sets of rules when it comes to sharing exculpatory evidence. She did a nice job of pointing out that if there was no review or report of the file that nifong gave to the defendents and becasue of the false evidence that nifong was using there may well have been a plea agreement before a trial date was set. Subsequent to the plea bargain then the prosecutor would not have to turn over the exculpatory data at all and as KL mentioned that senario was scary. Of course these 3 guys would not plea bargain but KJ smoothly pointed out that there is not one set of rules for those with money and another set of rules for the indigent. The law requires compliance with the rules of law regardless of class, nifong did not do what the law required and was using class and privledge as the excuse suggesting that the defense had the money and time to go through the exculpatory data even i fhe gave the data a day before a trial started. So nifong claims he was not required to give either the complete report or all the data until just before trial. Obviously he was proven wrong on that premise today. LETS HEAR ANOTHER STORY NOW MIKE.
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LMB
Posted: Apr 13 2007, 08:03 PM


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AG Cooper mentioned the other day that he did not feel it necessary to prosecute Magnum because she really believes all the stories she told about what happened to her, even though nothing happened to her. Actually, AG Cooper's explanation could also be used to explain the G88 and their actions over a similar time period.
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usa
Posted: Apr 13 2007, 09:08 PM


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QUOTE (LIZ @ Apr 13 2007, 05:42 PM)
Katherine Jean doesn't "get it" if she thinks those boys would have entered into a plea agreement.

They are and always have been innocent of charges! Geez! They weren't dependent on the exculpatory DNA evidence of the male sperm bank residing inside Precious. Everything pointed toward their innocence-- not just the fact that Precious had lots of sex with lots of others and not with any of the team.

The boys knew the truth and the truth was the charges were totally made up. When I read what Katherine Jean said, it bothered me. "Plea bargain" was never a reality. Why would it be?

As to my analysis of why I think Brodhead approached the crisis the way he did, someone said it was "nice." ------- (LOL) I wasn't trying to be "nice" as in "pleasant," or did you mean "nice" as in "trivial?" ( LOL)

I agree that the BOT was willing to throw overboard whatever they thought was sinking the Duke ship. Ruthless? Yep.



I know I have said this before but my intuition is that initally the President and the Chairman might have bought into the "something happened in that house" tale.

I figure they thought there was prostitution involved. So, naturally, they thought the DNA of Duke students would show up in the Crystal sperm bank. When it didn't, then and only then, I think, they entertained the possibility that the boys were telling the truth all along.

Why they would not believe 46 boys' word at the outset is mystifying to me! Yet, I believe they did not accept their word and thought it was going to come down to a he said/she said-- a Kobe Bryant debacle.

They didn't believe their own studnets and they had plenty of support for not believing them because of the complaining Trinity Park residents, the faculty who hated this type of student -athlete, and the students on campus who so eagerly joined community activists. So many were so sure that "something happened."

What is tragic is that the judgment of the President and of the Chairman are so flawed. They didn't believe the kids and then later when they knew unequivocally that the tale was a hoax, they were still willing to sacrifice the boys rather than confront the injustices done the kids and also admit their own stupidity.

And so, lessons are learned. Dr. Brodhead must go. Others too but it must begin with him. Like Nifong, he was the wrong man for the job.

Katherine Jean was correct in talking about plea bargaining. SHe did it in generic terms. In plain language she let it be known that in most cases 95 % were plea agreements. In doing so she showed that what Nifong did hurt this case and potentially many others including those who could not mount a strong defense. I thought her remarks were terrific.
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LIZ
Posted: Apr 13 2007, 10:51 PM


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I only read the article that was posted on this site. I made my remarks based on that article alone.. I am sure you are right about her remarks since you probalby listened to it in its entire context. ----- Forgive me, USA.

I am going to bed. I went to the reunion tonight at Duke. Pretty lame.
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strawberrylane
Posted: Apr 14 2007, 04:19 AM


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K.P.
  Posted: Apr 14 2007, 07:14 AM


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Quest to convict hid a lack of evidence.

<snip>--A News & Observer examination of Nifong's handling of the case, based on documents and dozens of interviews, adds new insights about the investigation's focus on shoring up Mangum's claims. Nifong ignored contrary facts, withheld evidence favorable to the accused and refused to discuss the case with defense lawyers.

His lead investigator, Linwood Wilson, pressured witnesses and produced different timelines and accounts to support Mangum's shifting statements.

http://www.newsobserver.com/1534/story/564100.html

Source Notes
http://www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/563953.html


--------------------
Reade Seligmann--My reputation is mine to destroy and no one else.
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fodu_admin_1
Posted: Apr 14 2007, 07:48 AM


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Since Wednesday, we received numerous requests for the text of Dave Evans' speech on April 11, 2007. We made a quick attempt to respond to those request and transcribed Dave's speech. Below is the link. If we discover mistakes, we will go back and revise as necessary.

Dave Evans' April 11, 2007 Statement
http://friendsofdukeuniversity.blogspot.co...612894173660188

Note: We will appreciate if you did not copy/paste this speech on other boards as it is still being refined. We may have to make further revisions to it. I have not yet read it. It was finished literally a few minutes ago by a volunteer member who is now working on the Joe Chesire speech. Please, use the link instead.
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LMB
Posted: Apr 14 2007, 09:49 AM


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http://www.slate.com/id/2164061/fr/flyout

Prosecuting the Prosecutor
Did the DA in the Duke lacrosse case commit a crime?
By Joseph Kennedy
Posted Friday, April 13, 2007, at 12:43 PM ET


JOE KENNEDY is a lawyer from UNC
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DA Devil
Posted: Apr 14 2007, 11:15 AM


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In Roy Cooper's devastating remarks re: Mike "Lie-Long" Nifong, he noted that the DA had proceeded unchecked in his prosecution of this case. I have been stunned and disappointed that there has been no follow-up on this particular remark. If Nifong was indeed "unchecked", then it seems the AG thinks there should have been checks and balances on Nifong's behavior. So who should have kept Nifong in check ... and clearly did NOT?

I can think of a few ... do you have others?

1. The Durham Police Dept -- little has been written about their (illegal?) behavior. From the investigators to the police chief, the DPD did everything Nifong wanted/needed to proceed unchecked. Note: I still think the DPD's behavior can be explained by knowing the names of the four-five depositors of DNA in the FA. I think a VERY high-placed police officer or Durham official is one of these men. The police were motivated to do Nifong's bidding in order to keep this potentially embarassing info out of the press, and out of the hands of the defense. Just a thought.

2. The Durham Herald-Sun - this paper did NOTHING to challenge Nifong, ever. Instead, they served as Nifong's mouthpiece, writing lie after lie, publishing "articles" that were really nothing more than SPIN and violations of the gag-order. If the "Durm Hurling-Scum" had grown a spine and found a conscience, they could be sitting pretty as the winners of a Pulitzer for brilliant journalistic reporting. Instead, they have been ridiculed on a national level, are the butt of jokes everywhere and are seen as an example of the worst kind of blind journalism. Sad, sad, sad.

3. Judge Ron Stevens -- he should be relieved of his duties on the bench, immediately. His rulings and decisions were always pro-Nifong. He allowed death threats to be hurled in court, allowed Nifong to roll his eyes, huff and puff, mutter mistruths under his breath, violate the law, lie in court ... and the list goes on and on. He NEVER challenged Nifong. And he should be called to task for his mistakes. A full scale examination of his rulings - and of his CLOSE PERSONAL TIES to Nifong - are definitely in order.

4. Duke University adminstrators - I know many will disagree, but if even ONE high-ranking Duke administrator had demanded that the players be allowed their constutionally-guaranteed presumption of innocence, then others might have followed suit. And the three student-athletes would not have been hung out to dry by their professors and fellow students. Instead, there was nothing but silence. A cowardly, "cover-my-ass" silence. Sadly, I have lost all respect for Duke's leadership. At the very least, Burness MUST go. He is poison, and should never be allowed to represent Duke again. He is not worthy.

The AG has proposed legislation to mandate legal checks and balances. But I hope that we will not ignore the "checks" that already exist -- the police, the local media, the court system and academicians who should have known better. These (and many other) groups allowed Nifong to go unchecked. And here we are today.

Off to the Duke-VA lacrosse game. Go DEVILS.
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Quasimodo
Posted: Apr 14 2007, 01:54 PM


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QUOTE (fodu_admin_1 @ Apr 14 2007, 02:48 AM)
Since Wednesday, we received numerous requests for the text of Dave Evans' speech on April 11, 2007.

I hope all these get printed in the books that are coming out. I'd like for the rest of the public to be able to read them and be reminded of what these defendants went through, and how they conducted themselves through it all.

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LIZ
Posted: Apr 14 2007, 02:18 PM


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To add to DA Devil's list of folks who let Nifong go on unchecked, add the assistant DA's!
And I agree! We must learn the Johns who frequented the Crystal lair. I think there is someone Nifong tried to protect by withholding the DNA names. ( Someone who has power over him or who works with him.)

Again, Crystal must be prosecuted. Women with awful psychiatric disorders end up behind bars. Look at the Yates woman in Texas.

Crystal is being given a pass because "someone" does not want to upset the AA Community by prosecuting her. If she goes to trial, we will learn who her enablers were in this hoax and that would embarass someone important in the AA Community. That is my bet.

I think she needs to be arrested too because she is a danger to society. Also, kids are arrested everyday for things that are far less serious than what this woman has done. A significant number of these people are also deranged.
Durham police arrest people constantly. Why not her?

I think someone is being protected by not arresting her and I think that someone is a person other than the liar herself. Just my hunch-- that is all.


******************************************************************
On another note, "smarmy" is the word I'd use to describe Brodhead's reaction to the boys' exoneration. He will be gone by August. I am turning into an oracle. lol
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usa
Posted: Apr 14 2007, 02:30 PM


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There is a thread Hero of Heroes on LS. Cooney posted today. The photo of Crystal on the steps, well she was holding Dave Evans Shaving Kit!!!
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duke75alum
Posted: Apr 14 2007, 02:51 PM


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There are some interesting posts by Jim Cooney and Brad Bannon on a Liestoppers message thread. Here is a notable one:

http://z9.invisionfree.com/LieStoppers_Boa...dpost&p=8679315

"... there is one member of the team that has gone unmentioned: you Blog Hooligans. I reviewed the Boards everyday ..."

The defense teams (and families) appreciated the support. Perhaps one of them can speak at the upcoming Electronic Techtonics free conference at Duke, organized by Cathy "blog hooligan" Davidson. This open conference on the Internet and the future of learning includes an 8pm. reception at Nasher. This is a teachable moment.
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LMB
Posted: Apr 14 2007, 03:39 PM


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What a GREAT lacrosse game today. DUKE won 7-6 in overtime. Duke could have played better as they had too many turnovers but they persisted and WON. DUKE ACC CHAMPS. tongue.gif
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strawberrylane
Posted: Apr 14 2007, 04:31 PM


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The game was great, the stands full. It is alumni weekend. Even Coach K came to watch.

Duke's offense did a great job. The VA goalie and defense game up no real good looks at the goal the entire game.

This is what top level LAX is all about.
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