Corporate Pentecost, Commentary by Hodeuon

[Administrator]

I came across a suggestion that perhaps the 2005 GGWO convention was the fulfillment of Carl Stevens’ prophecy of “corporate Pentecost”. I think it would be a good idea to see what Carl said about corporate Pentecost in his “classic” sermon. I transcribed the tape and will quote brief excerpts.

“Tonight, I want to speak about a corporate Pentecost. I want to make very clear that there will not be another Pentecost like Acts 2. This one will have a phenomenal, unbelievable impact in a different way just exactly as the Acts 2 Pentecost did.”

Commentary: This is right at the beginning of the sermon. In a different way just exactly like Acts 2? What does that even mean? In a different way, because almost everyone would realize it was heresy if he said in the same way. Just exactly like Acts 2 because he wanted TBS to think it was special.

“God told us over eight and a half years ago that we would be raised up to be used of God to usher in, in New England, a corporate body emphasis which would be new to New England.”

Commentary: This is an explicit claim to receiving special revelation from God. Carl Stevens claimed to be a prophet. Also note that he claims TBS would have something better than the other churches in New England. The elevation of “the ministry” is there, but Carl is still thinking in a regional sense at this point. Consider what other churches have been in New England: the Pilgrims, the Puritans, much of the First Great Awakening… Why didn’t Jonathan Edwards and George Whitefield know about this “corporate body emphasis”?

“But there’s one thing that night that He told us that I’ll never forget when most of these things came for the first time, and He gave them to us on five different occasions, adding too. But it was this: ‘I will call you out to put you in places that have been tread down by the feet of man. You will travel over roads of religion and roads where legalism and law and stifling religion has been before. But as you travel and walk over these roads, you will walk by faith. And I will give you a baptism of love, and this love will be shed abroad in your hearts experientially. Not only will I give the body a baptism of love but I’ll give the body a revelation on grace that no other ministry has ever had in the Northeast.’ These are the words that He told us early in the morning between twelve and one o’clock and these are the things that He said He was going to do.”

Commentary: It is a little hard to be certain when you are working from a tape, but it seemed to me that Carl was quoting what God supposedly told him, so that is how I have rendered the punctuation.
What is a baptism of love? As far as I know, the New Testament speaks of the baptism of repentance that John preached, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and water baptism. It seems a little odd to me that God would introduce a new category of baptism and not explain it.
It also seems odd that God would speak in a King James sound bite and then tack on a twentieth-century theological word: “love will be shed abroad in your hearts experientially”. Plus there is the lack of subject-verb agreement: “where legalism and law and stifling religion has been before”. And then God refers to “the Northeast”. Massachusetts is only Northeast when you are using the United States as a referent. It just seems strange that God wouldn’t use Jerusalem or Israel as His geographic referent, and say “the coastlands” or “the West” or something like that.
Not to put to fine a point on it, but Carl Stevens just pulled a Joseph Smith. First, he’s putting words in God’s mouth. Second, he’s attributing bad grammar and regionalisms to God. This is precisely the sort of thing that makes other churches think you are a cult.

“The test of a ministry is, when things are prophesied, in Deuteronomy, do they come to pass? If they do, then they are of God, and if they don’t they are not of God. It’s just that simple.”

Commentary: As noted elsewhere, there is not going to be a nuclear accident at the Maine Yankee nuclear power plant for the simple reason that it is no longer an operational nuclear power plant.

To be continued…

[Administrator]

To pick up where I left off with the message “Corporate Pentecost”…

At this point, Carl Stevens read (or perhaps recited) Joel 2:28-32. “Now there it is. I’m going to read the last verse again. ‘And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance…’ Jerusalem, the headquarters of Jesus Christ, and Mount Zion, the corporate body reigning.”

Commentary: I see no evidence presented to back the assertion that Mount Zion is “the corporate body reigning”.

Carl then stated, “And the corporate body reigns in the headquarters of Jesus Christ, and the headquarters of the Lord is His New Jerusalem.”

Commentary: As long as the corporate body is the same as the (universal) Church, I have no problem with this statement. My problem is that if the corporate body is a new thing that’s being introduced (see first post on this thread), then it is not really the same thing as the Church. I would appreciate clarification of whether the entire Church will be reigning with Christ, or just the TBS corporate body.

“And I want you to see in this portion that there will be a remnant whom the Lord shall call, and this remnant shall call upon the name of the Lord, and it doesn’t say that they will be saved – it says they will be delivered.”

Commentary: This set off an immediate red flag for me. But to give credit where credit is due, Carl is correct here. The Hebrew word here is a niphal stem, and does indeed mean delivered rather than saved (which is what it means when it appears in other stems). But note this:

“What will they be delivered from? They will be delivered not just from the terrible day of the Tribulation but they will be delivered from all the natural laws of the flesh, they will be delivered from all the structure of ecclesiastical Christianity, they will be delivered from all the selfish and materialistic-oriented minds of Adam, they will be delivered from plagues and diseases, and heartaches and sorrows, and divisions and confusions of the Adam world.”

Commentary: Having translated the word correctly, Carl Stevens then attached this baggage to it. This is a classic bait & switch. The Hebrew has been handled correctly, but now the concept gets linked to things that Carl pulls in out of thin air. There is a passing nod to deliverance from the Tribulation – a nod to the dispensational theology in TBS/GG’s doctrinal statement. But then comes deliverance from ecclesiastical Christianity. It certainly sounds to me that this separates TBS from the rest of the Church. And yes, there is deliverance from the flesh, from disease, from sorrow – but in the day of the Lord – not at the time of what God was doing through TBS. See how true teachings and false distinction of TBS as different than the rest of the Church are woven together? And if you attack Carl’s interpretation, then it will be claimed that you are attacking the true doctrines that are involved.

“And this remnant will be a group of people who have not only entered into the corporate organism of Jesus Christ but they have entered into a corporate Pentecost, and I’ll show you what I mean.”

Commentary: Here Carl Stevens makes it explicit: this deliverance applies to those in the corporate Pentecost (TBS) not to the “corporate organism of Jesus Christ” (the Church). Really this is no more and no less than saying that Jesus promised to deliver TBS rather than the entire Church.

“What a beautiful thing to go through life and literally, literally be delivered!”

Commentary: Carl is applied this deliverance to our current lives. This is a misapplication of Joel 2.

Carl continues, “Totally delivered - out of the structure, out of the world system, out of the propaganda of superficial pseudo-communication of a religious language in a world of overactivity.”

Commentary: The last phrase sounds impressive, but I have no idea what it actually means.

“And a lot of believers that are double-minded and live in selfishness and greed and probably aren’t even saved and undoubtedly would go to Hell if they died tonight not only don’t need – they need more than a corporate Pentecost; what they need is to repent of sin and receive Christ and be saved the right way through the Bible.”

Commentary: I went over this and over this, and it is transcribed correctly. Carl really does say that a lot of believers aren’t saved and need to receive Christ *and be saved the right way*. Is there a wrong way to be saved that makes you a believer yet while saving you doesn’t save you? At a minimum, he is again drawing a distinction between those who follow Carl and those Christians who don’t.

“Because if they were truly saved, they would not practice sin and live like Balaam’s ass in the world of unknown language.”

Commentary: What does this even mean? Please read the story of Balaam (Numbers 22-24; the donkey is in Number 22:21-34). Balaam’s donkey did the right thing. I don’t know what the phrase “Balaam’s ass” carries a negative connotation in TBS/GG, similar to “angel of light” (Angels of light are good; Satan *disguises* himself as one to fool people.) It’s a repeating of biblical catchphrases in an effort to sound authoritative.

To be continued…

[Administrator]

Part three…

Carl: “It’s amazing how many, many people can hear messages – I’m very sensitive tonight, and I’m observing my audience very carefully – can hear messages and not receive the life that God enjoys to give to transform them in a moment.”

Commentary: In other words, Carl anticipates that not everyone is buying his new “revelation”. Did he have specific people in mind?

“And they were so one that something fantastic was going to happen.”

Commentary: Carl is referring to the apostles. He makes Pentecost out to be something that they enabled to happen by being one. Pentecost happened when the triune God decided it was time, and the Holy Spirit came and indwelt believers. I’m all in favor of us being available for what God wants to through us, but let’s not get any silly ideas that our readiness state constrains God who is omnipotent.

“I want you to notice the first thing that God does as He prepares a corporate Pentecost. He’s going to purge, separate hearts that aren’t in one accord.”

Commentary: These two sentences are crucial to the whole mindset of Carl Stevens, Tom Schaller, TBS, and GGWO. This is how they are able to look at the current situation – disaffiliations across North America, Europe, and South America – and claim that they are in a time of revival. According to their theology, corporate Pentecost begins with pruning. Those who are “drinking the koolaid” naturally expect corporate Pentecost any time now. This is why there was speculation about the “movement of the Holy Spirit” at convention 2005.

“I want to make this prophecy: The first thing the Lord Jesus is going to do before He reigns in just a very little while now, in just a short period of time, in corporate Pentecost, He’s going to take away hearts that are not purified within, that are not corporate in the oneness of belief, but who have a double mind on the inside but go along with Christianity to avoid hell on the outside.”

Commentary: There are several very important claims here. First, Carl Stevens explicitly claims to be making a prophecy. Here is an example of a charismatic strain of thought in Carl’s weird hybrid of dispensationalism, covenant theology, and charismatic theology. Second, this prophecy is to be fulfilled “in just a short period of time”. Given the falling away that he’s speaking of, it seems to me that his context is the 1980s. I do not believe this prophecy was fulfilled “in just a short period of time”. Third, Carl characterizes those who are purged as “not purified within”, not corporate in belief, double-minded, and professing Christianity solely to avoid hell. In short, he is alleging that anyone who leaves TBS is not a real Christian. Those still in GGWO who heard this sermon now have to decide whether they treat those disaffiliating – those who were their comrades for twenty or thirty or more years – as fellow Christians or not. I suggest than anyone who finds himself or herself in this situation recognize that the Church began on the day of Pentecost, and that the appearance of Carl Stevens’ ministry did *absolutely nothing* to fundamentally alter the nature of the Church, the body of Christ.

“I’m simply stating that there will be a measure of purging and <one word unclear> some people who go along with our influential power – that is, the body’s power – that at times conform to what we’re doing but inwardly they themselves have never been baptized with the fire of God’s word, the power of God’s grace, and the body of God’s conviction and consequently they will not leave Christianity but they will leave an organism that is leading Christianity into all the world with a corporate revival - the reason being that they will not submit to our government, to our convictions, to our authority, and to our vision which is worldwide.”

Commentary: This statement also uses a strand of charismatic theology to imply that The Bible Speaks is superior to the rest of Christianity. There is this extra baptism – “the fire of God’s word, the power of God’s grace, and the body of God’s conviction” – that others don’t have. Here, Carl specifies that those who leave aren’t leaving Christianity but the organization that’s going to reach the whole world. This is at odds with his previous statement in this sermon. Given that such concepts as “believers who are unsaved” (see my second post on this thread), it seems best not to force a reconciliation of these concepts but to accept that Carl Steven’s theology contains contradictions. Finally, this section of the message states that those who don’t submit to Carl’s authority don’t have the fire, the power, the body – in short, that they aren’t as good Christians or as special Christians as those who do submit to Carl.

“Instead of hearing and witnessing and being a part of presenting their bodies with us as a living sacrifice, they will withdraw into their own comfortable domestic scene and finally end up in their own humanistic horizon living by the horizontal plan propelled by their own egocentric Adamic emotion which will constraint them to abide in the selfishness of their own hidden nature.”

Commentary: These are the people who are pruned. Note the biblical phraseology that Carl slips in – if you fall away from TBS, you aren’t “presenting your body as a living sacrifice”. He has twisted Romans 12:1-2 to mean “stay in our special organization”. The rest of the verbage boils down to “anyone who leaves is living for himself rather than for God” but it has been cloaked in psychobabble so that it sounds less offensive.

To be continued…

[Administrator]

Part four…

The gist of part three was that people who leave TBS (GGWO) aren’t spiritual or godly or probably not even saved, according to Carl. Continuing to describe them, he says:

“And they’re here tonight. They’ll be introspective. Never ask yourself, ‘Is it I?’ because when Matthew 26 was on the scene and several asked Jesus, ‘Is it I?’, He didn’t tell them.”

Commentary: According to John 13:26, “Jesus answered, ‘It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it.’ And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.” Since John had been prompted by Peter to ask in the first place, presumably he relayed this information to Peter at some point.

As far as being introspective, my suspicion – and that’s all it is – is that Carl didn’t want you sitting around thinking because you might start thinking about the red flags. Instead he kept you busy.

Carl goes on to say that the best thing to do is to decide that it’s not going to be you. “In other words, you answer the question with a positive ‘I know in Whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I committed unto Him against that day.’”

Commentary: Check out this bait and switch! Look how spiritual Carl’s suggested answer sounds. And then notice the question again. “It is I?” Carl is equating leaving TBS (GGWO) – that is, betraying Carl Stevens (in his opinion anyway) – with betraying Jesus Christ. Notice how deftly he slips in the comparison between those who leave TBS and Judas Iscariot without ever saying it in so many words. Then he throws in 2 Timothy 1:12, equating trusting Christ with trusting Carl.

“Now listen. The Lord Jesus is going to purge people that live in outward conformance to what we teach and believe but inwardly their heart is not on fire.”

Commentary: There are three insidious concepts in this one sentence. First, that Jesus will purge people that don’t follow what Carl teaches. Carl seems to speak of himself as the standard of orthodoxy. Second, Scripture says of Jesus, “A bruised reed He will not break, And smoking flax He will not quench, Till He sends forth justice to victory” (Matthew 12:20). And in the parable, Jesus directs that the tares not be pulled up until the end. But somehow He is supposedly going to deal differently with TBS – pruning before the time. And third, this pruning will be for not being on fire. Carl is setting a standard of a certain level of *sanctification* rather than justification in order to remain in the Church.

“And one of the things that Jesus Christ tells us about corporate Pentecost is that in order for everyone to be in one accord He’s going to have to take out the hearts that aren’t. And He knows how to do that, and I would make a mess of it.”

Commentary: The last sentence is interesting. On one level, the modesty just isn’t true – Carl Stevens hounded people out of The Bible Speaks who disagreed with him. On another level, Jesus does know how to take hearts out of TBS/GG, although from my vantage point it looks more like a rescue mission than pruning. And Carl certainly did make a mess of it.

More to come…

[Administrator]

Corporate Pentecost, part five

At this point, Carl Stevens gives the congregation four directives:

“As never before in your lives, don’t you walk by sight. Number two, don’t you rationalize in your Adam. Number three, don’t you judge according to appearance. Number four, live inside the body and humble yourself and let the love of God flow.”

Commentary: This basically reduces to don’t think for yourself; just go along with everyone else.

“God will do things in the next few months, twenty-four to thirty, that will totally astonish you and when He’s all said and done He’s going to have a living epistle left to reign and this living epistle even now living will go and take this corporate life message into the entire world.”

Commentary: Carl gives the time frame for his prophecy. It’s well past expired. Regardless of whether the events come to pass, this is still a false prophecy – it didn’t happen. It’s too late now – way more than thirty months have passed. Notice that it is the living epistle, not the whole Church, that will supposedly reign with Christ.

“Notice the Holy Spirit makes us one but they had to be one before He descended.”

Commentary: This is self-contradictory. The Holy Spirit makes us one. But the apostles were one before He descended? In what sense was the Holy Spirit given to the apostles before the day of Pentecost?

“You have no excuse tonight. If you feel you have not been baptized with power that’s no excuse for not being one in attitude in one place waiting for the fulfillment to come. A lack of knowledge should not be a reason for not having one accord.”

Commentary: Again, stop thinking and follow the crowd.

“But strangely enough as God does the cutting and the separating, He’s still going to have an army – not just a small few, an army who are totally and completely baptized in the corporate organism of oneness and they will be an army!”

Commentary: This is precisely what Tom Schaller is banking on – that GGWO will grow back larger than ever after the recent disaffiliations.

“And even the passivity of your thoughts, the lack of discipline for your schedule, the inability to orient your life to a reasonable order of divine importance – You see, every moment of my life is important, even the moments that I go home and rest.”

Commentary: This is how TBS / GG came to totally control people’s lives. It was another bait & switch – moment by moment control by Jesus turned into moment by moment control by Carl.

“Whenever God speaks, don’t be introspective and attack yourself. Attack the enemy by obedience and faith instantly and win a victory to win Christ.”

Commentary: Again, *don’t think*. The last sentence describes the system of salvation that Carl Stevens teaches – combined faith and works. That’s not just an unfortunate phrasing – it matches Carl’s Convention 2004 Thursday night message and his preaching on James 2. “Win a victory to win Christ” – Carl describes something that we do. That’s not how it is.

“Several, two, three – two to my left – two my right and one to my left was getting extremely introspective because I was hitting this business of order and schedules.”

Commentary: Or possibly those three were realizing that Carl was full of it.

“And just for a few moments you act in terms of practical humanity, practicing life for God instead of receiving life from God to live in your humanity to manifest Jesus Christ.”

Commentary: How is this different than the winning a victory to win Christ that Carl advocated above?

Well, the message doesn’t really sound like it’s over to me, but that’s the last line that’s on the tape.

To summarize: Corporate Pentecost is a template to what Greater Grace expects. People who leave are “pruned”, supposedly by God, and “the corporate body” grows back stronger than before. This message is being used to soothe things over in Baltimore during the current situation. Tapes of Corporate Pentecost have been passed out during the last year.

Hodeuon