Closure, "I Never Can Say Goodbye."

[ggwogeist]

So did the Baltimore Sun run a story about His Carlness? I did a search on their site and got nothing. Was his death a non-event in Baltimore?

[Dude]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CG-DmaAaqE...feature=related

[Jim Kennedy]

Epilogue
Part I: Disjuncted Particles

It's an interesting week in my exit journey. 15 years out, where did the time go? I guess I've come to the conclusion "there ain't no future in the past." More on that later.

I listened to Grace Hour today. The last time I listened to it was January 1995. That was the day after my wife marched past security into Junior's office and pleaded with him to stop lying about why I left and telling everybody we were evil. He had no right to lie to our friends. He reacted to that by getting on the air first thing Monday morning and stating "God wounds people by making them mentally ill."

From what I heard today things haven't changed too much. The show started with around 10 minutes of selling, including a pitch for the convention and the June Grace Hour Package which contains a "History of the Ministry of Dr. Stevens." Yours for only $25 "or more." Then they rolled the tape, a Junior Stevens rerun: The Mercy Road.

"NOW..."
It was kind of funny to hear his voice after all these years. And now that he's dead. It really has no power over me any more. No fear, doubt, guilt, or anger. Nothing. Equally uninspiring was the tripe he served up.

Just like the old days he started out by butchering the Greek. Kato phroneo and a "disjunctive particle." Whatever that is. Neither Dana and Manty nor Spiros Zodhiates knew what it was either.

It was the same thing he'd been saying since 1983:
-Speaking up about someone doing you wrong will bring "discipline of chastisement."
-"Those preachers" don't know God
-"Violating redemption" leads to "Representing the Devil."
-If you confront someone who has sinned against you, you have "violated 34 doctrines."
-"I can't be counseled how somebody has hurt me."
-People who don't forgive the pastor are "wicked, evil, ignorant, self righteous fools."

There was the obligatory David Illustration. Of course following all this mercy talk there was an example from a couple he's counseling. She's jealous, he's ungracious. So much for forgetting other's sins. There was some obvious editing/deletions. A statement regarding being in context when he wasn't. The trademark shouting: "IS IT ANY WONDER!!!???" DON'T WORRY ABOUT YOUR JOB, GET INTO BIBLE COLLEGE!!!" Applause. And the revelation that the Rapture will take 11/100ths of a second.

Finally, as the background music came up, this sentence tying the whole thing together:
"Marveling at so many wonderful thoughts on love, He takes away all the clutter." No one tried to explain that one when the show went back on live.

For about 11/100ths of a second I tried to decide which was more outrageous, Junior standing in the pulpit jacked up on dope and slicing up baloney to cover his own ass, or GGWO continuing to play messages like that on Grace Hour now that he's gone.

For their part Tom Schaller and John Love were just giddy about the whole thing. "Uh, there's an elephant in the room BUT I DON'T SEE IT! uh, giggle." Schaller still calls Junior "Doctor Stevens."

Schaller tried to solidify the point of the message by discussing how the Pharisees strained gnats and swallowed camels. I was thinking about calling in and asking if there was a biblical basis to consider hypocracy, financial fraud, lying, psychologically damaging the flock, and adultery as "gnats", and would preaching a false doctrine of God's grace, stating someone should be instantly forgiven for screwing someone else's wife and killing the poor bastard (the David Metaphor) on one hand while claiming that if you didn't instantly forgive that person you would be subject to "divine chastisement" on the other be considered "the camel." But I thought better of it and put the phone down.

After not listening to it for so long it really was an eye opener reagarding the severity of their twisted doctrinal error. The only sin that seems to bear any guilt or punishment is "violating redemption." If the pastor lies, preaches false doctrine, robs the church, or f***s somebody's wife on his desk I am required to instantly forgive him and forget about it. "THE SECOND YOU HEAR IT" was the way it was put in The Mercy Road. But if I confront the leader then there will be real hell to pay. God's throne will instantly respond by meting out punishment. I recalled my last word's to my Revelation class in December of 1993:
"If you replace your bible with the pastor's messages one day somebody is going to tell you blue is red and you'll believe it. There's a reason you have a Bible. Reading the Bible on your own is the only protection you have."

Another thought is that the direction GGWO seems pointed in now reminds me of Elvis. Elvis died many years ago, but there is still a loyal following purchasing his music and memorabilia. His hardcore fans will never leave him. There is a cottage industry of some really bad Elvis impersonators. I think Schaller, Love and company have opted to use nostalgia as the main selling point to keep people in the seats. Elvis live from Convention '98. Elvis in Europe. ABD with Elvis. Elvis' Doctrine Booklets Volume One. Elvis: The Mercy Road. Like Elvis, I doubt it will ever end. And like Elvis, Junior is still dead.

The good news is new people are not likely to be attracted to this kind of false doctrine and worship of Junior Stevens. It's too in house.

Following some more plugs for convention and the parading of an African missionary who has absolutely no clue who these people are that he's dealing with, my wireless link failed and I missed the last 15 minutes of The Grace Hour. There is some mercy after all.

What kind of person buys this crap? Worse, what kind of person sells it?

For certain intruders have stolen in among you, people who long ago were destined for this condemnation as ungodly. Who pervert the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

ps. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_hkIN38qnY...rom=PL&index=20

[Jim Kennedy]

Epilogue
Part II: Two Faced-book

In our last episode we observed that life at Frankford Plaza continues to go on as usual. “There’s an elephant in the room, but I DON’T SEE IT.”

But how goes it with those who got out? The stories are as varied as the participant’s initial exit experience. Some left in splits, some on their own, some experienced an intervention and maybe a “de-programming.” For some there was the formation of a mirror organization, IAGM. And for a few who really can’t bear to live without “the finished work message” there is fellowship with the living legacy: Paul or Steve Stevens.

My observation is that the majority of exits, particularly those who took part in the recent mass exodus, don’t see “the elephant” either. By this I mean that while no longer filling a seat at GG, they basically continue along believing most of what they learned there. They are also unable to admit they were wrong about anything, including their complicity in Stevens slander campaigns against his “enemies.” It was all just “God’s Will.” Their new pastor's sins are "covered." Ex-members should “just get over it.” I’m making a generalization here, but its basis is in several hundred e-mails and conversations since 2005 when I first logged on to Factnet and reading the posts over the years.

The most well adjusted people I’ve heard from are those who really were involved in the discussion on Factnet and on Discuss GGWO. They were able to face the reality of what happened and also able to admit personal mistakes. Not only did they admit it to themselves, they posted public confessions. They also were available to help others who had left or were facing decisions. They go to different churches or they don't go to church at all. I received a lot of help from some of these people, including letters of recommendation for jobs and college applications, a few dollars in a very desperate time, and a few shoulders to cry on.

I've only heard from a few of my closest friends. Three telephone conversations. One couldn’t say he was sorry and prefers to continue like nothing really happened. One said “I’m sorry” but couldn’t seem to remember specifically what he was sorry about. And a third called to tell me he was still loyal to Stevens and described our defunct friendship as “whatever will be will be.” We hadn’t talked in 12 year and his real purpose in calling was to ask if I could use my connections to get him a job. I didn't use my connections to help him get a job.

I joined Facebook this year. A friend (ex-gg) had sent me the link to his page. After I registered a page popped up: People You May Know. To my horror it was about 300 thumbnail photos of GG and IAGM members. Night of the living dead GGWO membership. “You have 1 friend request.” IGNORE. Of course there are some real ex-members contacting me and they now have access to my page. But can I have a show of hands: If you think Stevens was your "spiritual father", if you regularly attend a GG or IAGM church, if you study "categorical doctrine," or if God speaks to you directly, please signify by removing me from your friends list.

This week on Facebook I confronted one of my “friends” regarding our history at GG. We were in each others weddings and did a lot of things together. My e-mail to him resulted in the revelation that I “still have issues.” I clicked REMOVE and we're not "friends." I guess we never were. I refuse to ignore "the elephant."

Out in the non-GG world, otherwise known as reality, I spoke with a former employer this week regarding the purchase of some electronics gear. I had walked off the job in 2007 after getting into a verbal with one of my co-workers. The former boss had not handled the situation well at all and I was the big loser. But in the middle of our discussion regarding the equipment he changed the subject and said he was sorry. He said he liked me and that he was sorry about the way it ended. Then he said it again: "I'm really sorry." It was unsolicited and I really appreciated it. And it was good business. You can get a lot more done without an elephant in the room.

"Walter, what's your point?!?!" My point is that there is no true recovery without honesty. There is no real repentance without confession. There is no knowledge of God without truth. There is no healing through denial. Unless we deal with "the elephant in the room" we're the same dysfunctional family we always were. And I'm not doing it, on Facebook or anywhere else.

God is love. He who does not love does not know God.

[boss_martian]

Great posts, Jim.

[Jim Kennedy]

Epilogue
Part III: This Is It

It's been a good week for me in a few ways. My confrontation with my former friend and listening to Grace Hour has shown me something: I don't care about this crap any more.

I'd wanted to post a few final thoughts about it. I thought a thread called Closure would be a good place to do that. There's some good postings on this thread and I think it's worth keeping it around for any new or old ex-members looking in.

My involvement in Discuss and Factnet has now reached a total of about 4 and 1/2 years. This past year I've been involved anonymously. Honestly, since quitting Factnet in '05 my intention has been to try and help out. I tried, not always successfully, not to make it about me. But as is often the case when trying to clean up someone who's dirty you end up getting dirty yourself.

I want to say how grateful I am to the Administrator of this site for making the effort to keep people away from GGWO and help people there see the truth about their leaders. This is a valuable resource. I also want to commend my fellow posters for their efforts and insight, and also for their patience and sensitivity in dealing with my posts.

"If you will it, it is no dream."
Theodore Hertzel

Jim

ps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L0ORyPnvWc&NR=1
LOL

[Chrysalis]

Hi Jim,

In case you visit back to read -

I am interested in your epilogue because I found myself today looking at the ggwo site and missing certain people. I was part of the mass exodus a few years back, and I'm wondering how much I've processed and gotten past certain things. It's been a little over 4 years for me being fully out the door.

I like your point that there is no true recovery without honesty, etc.

I am on Facebook but barely participate. I tell myself that in the future I will find a way that works for me to keep up with various people. I have both "true ex-members" and other flavors of gg'ers/post gg'ers in my friend list. But I am hardly on facebook so it's not an active thing with me right now. I have seen a few comments from you now and then on friends' pages. You & I were Lenox & post-Lenox contemporaries but never knew one another personally (I know that could be said about a lot of gg relationships but I mean it literally .

For me, I think in terms of freedom to relate as I wish, and also of degrees of willful denial. I mean: some people whom I once felt close with I perceive to have had plenty of clear, should-be-undeniable exposure to events and doctrine which needs to be repented of. I also think of them as smart enough to know better, given their explicit knowledge. In my view, they should be clear that the elephant in the room has stomped the guts out of many people, and needs to be dealt with. I have no desire to be in contact with these people.

There are others who I see as mostly mesmerized by group-think and unwitting participants in damage to others. Participants nonetheless but in a different category. I would have counted myself in this group. My form of denial / handling things back in the day was to take warnings about evil, ex-members, etc. as general principles, but to never be able to imagine that they could apply to anyone I'd ever met. So, for example, I never remember hearing anything bad about you. For current gg'ers in this group, I picture them as vaguely aware of a zoo disturbance a few years back, and never being clear on what all the fuss was.

I feel like I am rooting for myself and also for people of various stripes in various categories. I miss individuals, even ones I knew only so well. Happily I now know the world is a bigger place and all of this is much less on my radar screen than it ever was before. But I find I have to still be active in embracing my life as it is today, and how I got here.

I read on FN but never posted there. Didn't have the energy to deal with all that it was. I joined here late in the game, but at least felt the freedom and effect of participating some.

I'm glad for your many helpful posts. Just felt like responding today, after not visiting for some months.

Regards,
Chrysalis

[Annie]

Jim, I found your comments helpful; thanks for taking the time. I was recently reminded how painful family relationships with past and present GG members when I needed to deal with these siblings during a stressful family crisis. These people grew up in an ‘attack atmosphere’, and still operate in that mode today. They do not know how to build trusting loving relationships, and get there backs up about any suspected criticism. The harm is an ongoing thing when trying to work within the family of these who have been raised under the CHS brainwashing and people bashing that went on in that group. The do not operate like most normal people: they are still dysfunctional, unintelligent, belligerent, delusional, self-absorbed bores. Unfortunately they are my siblings. So the pain does continue; the harm runs deep, and will most proably effect the next generation. How do you bring closure to that?

[Dude]

So the pain does continue; the harm runs deep, and will most proably effect the next generation. How do you bring closure to that?

It was difficult for me to deal with friends who treated me like a leper after I left, I really can't imagine what it would be like if it was my family. Even harder if it's your spouse. The most heartbreaking story I heard was a mom whose kid's said she was evil.

Your post shows how awful the whole thing is. GGWO is not a "family oriented ministry." It is a fraud that preaches loyalty to pastor (including the dead one) and church ahead of the family.

When I left the church I got some therapy. The counselor was a christian psychiatrist and I found what he had to say helpful. He described Stevens as someone "who had placed himself on the throne with God." (You could say the same about the guys who are running it now.) I gave him a tape of one of my sermons and he wasn't impressed, which showed me I had a lot to learn. But the thing he said that stuck with me the most came when I described my experience of being ostracized by those closest to me: "Solitary confinement is what they do to prisoners to break them."

There's no doubt in my mind that GGWO is evil. I don't mean that in a Biblical/satanic sense, but in terms of the way you see human beings destroy others to serve their own selfish interest. GG members can be sure of one thing: Tom Schaller doesn't give a damn about you. If you don't believe that tell him you're thinking about quitting.

The problem with relationships when you get out is that if you try to tell them "I don't care about the church I just want to be friends" the response to that is usually no. In their minds we are deceived, out of the will of God, evil, satan is using your vocal chords etc. How do you argue with that? I decided my own survival was the primary issue.

There's no easy answer to your problem. But you have to know that your family are victims the same as anyone else who's still in physically or mentally. They are Victims. They have been indoctrinated into GG's way of thinking and that's not easy to break out of. I know it's hard but maybe the answer is to try not to take it personally. It's them, not you. I know this is easy for me to say. Perhaps the future will hold another incident revealing that GG is a fraud and then your loved ones will see it for what it is. If that happens they'll know they can come to you.

Chrysalis said: There are others who I see as mostly mesmerized by group-think and unwitting participants in damage to others. Participants nonetheless but in a different category. Maybe that's a better way to say what I'm saying here. We're all victims.

I don't know if there is such a thing as closure for that. It's hard to be friends with someone who thinks you are the devil. I dealt with it by saying "screw you" to my false friends. I have no idea what I would have done it it was my family.



This post has been edited by Dude on Nov 18 2009, 09:48 AM