Off The Grid

Off the grid is where I'm headed, but I have to admit that working without a net has me just a little bit nervous.

I found this 'energy use' Calculator and my results didn't look too good.

Anyone have ideas or know of stuff that can help reduce the demand on an electrical supply without sacraficing too much in modern convenience? I'm aiming for a PV/Wind generating system.

I heard a rumour that there is a commercially available fridge, created in response to the 'California Initiative' (and btw, what's that?) that uses about the same amount of energy as an incandescent lightbulb. Anyone else heard of it? Or know where to get it?

I too wish to be off the grid.... I figure with a passive solar home I should be able to make do. and as a single guy I think I can really pair down my energy usage.. I do plan to get rid of the computers and use a library to access the web when needed.... or maybe just store the computer till I have a stable power supply up and running. however the goal is to be completely electricty indpendant.

ever read the book Better off by Eric Brende. I recommend it.

I found this site to be a useful site for knowledge as well as gauging the cost of off gird systems.

Sure they are trying to sell something on the site but it also has some good info on what is available, and what is really needed.

http://www.backwoodssolar.com/

I'm wondering if I'm being too extravagent in my planning, but I've been looking at some fridges for my home. I plan to be totally off grid (for everything) so obviously electrical efficiency will be a concern.

I plan to have a PV array, hopefully a BIPV system from Spheral Solar Power with a hybridized system including a wind turbine. Based on the link provided by Gatherer (in the post just before this one) I'll need at least a #5 system, more likely a #6, so I'm looking at the 30K ballpark (and I think those prices are american) so OWCH!

My point? I was looking at a SubZero fridge, specifically the Pro 48. To say that is it a high end model is an understatement, but it claims to use only 689KW per year. That works out to roughly 1.9KW per day to operate it. As far as I know, that's less than half of a standard energystar fridge, and comparable with some of the larger Sunfrost fridges and freezers. In fact, its almost equal with the Sunfrost's 16 cu' freezer. And the SubZero provides 18.4 cu' fridge and 11.4 cu' freezer, together.

So, if I'm willing to pay for it can I have my cake and eat it too? Can I have my environmentally soothing efficiency and some luxury? I almost don't wanna ask, for fear someone will burst this bubble.

If you want to see the cyber brochure, go to Sub Zero Pro 48. The specs are provided in the site, but if you wanna see them and are feeling a little impatient, click here

ok I'll say it. you are being way to extravagent.

how many people are going to be living in the home you build? if it's just yourself (like my personal situation) there is no need for a fridge that big. however I plan to have a passive Massive ice box, I'm currently working on the design for it, but basically it will be 1 U of a earthship. it won't be in my initial build but be included in the larger future build.

the main difference between the sub zero and the sun frost is the sub zero requires 120VAC power. this means with a Solar system you will need a rather large invertor, and all invertors have a certian amount of power loss, none are 100% efficient. the sunfrost on the other hand uses 12VDC which is the same type of power coming from your PV panels so they are instantly more efficient because of there being no need to convert the power before it's being used.

I'm assuming this was the page you were looking at?

http://www.backwoodssolar.com/interests/HomeExamples.htm

I'm most likely to start with number 1 on that page and add on as I see fit. of course with a passive solar house I shouldn't need electricity during the day. All I'll need the panels for mainly is a few small lights at night and possibly a very low power computer I've built.

KK, I'm gonna sulk for a few moments.... ok, I'm done

I have designed a similar system, except that the 'framework' for mine will be built at the same time as the rest of my foundation. I plan a basement style double U tirewall, kinda like the shape of a racetrack. It will be located below the kitchen area of my home, and completely encased in dirt, except for the 'roof' (strawbales there, on a false ceiling). The access will be by a small staircase, and possibly a dumbwaiter. One part, slightly more than half, will be a cold room with temperature maintained with earthtubes and solar stacking.

The other part will be a big freezer with an insulative wall of strawbales separating the two sections. It uses thermal mass principles, and it will also have earthtube and solar stacking componants, but it will also have an efficient freezer compressor to maintain temperature, especially in the summer. The compressor will be located in the kitchen above in a cupboard... the cupboard will be tied into the solar stacking for venting the heat in the summer. I don't expect to use it much in the winter, so any heat produced by it will simply add to the home heat.

Why do I need so much storage space? I plan to be mostly independant for my foodstuffs. I'll do a lot of gardening, canning, drying, ect. I also plan to hunt, and raise chickens and a cow, possibly a goat. I am single now, but I don't expect to stay that way forever. I have a large expanding family, and I love to entertain. My home will be a gathering place for the family, for festivities and celebrations. I also used to teach general interest courses for the Board of Ed Continuing Education, so I will likely host classes in my home. To start I will likely be the only one living there, but I will not be alone very much.

Oooh. I'd like to hear more about that!

ok I'll post up the link to low power computer systems. for the most part the phrase "some assembly required" will be needed for them (I'll start anothe3r thread so as not to get off topic.

Anyways I think since you are single now it might be best to start small. The smaller the system is the cheaper it will be. the benifit of any system is you can upgrade as needed. and With rising energy costs you can sell off the old equipment to someone else. so start small maybe a 250 watt system then if you get a Spouse you might want to add 2 panels...get a Kid add a panel to heat the goat house. Have a Child add a bigger invertor. have 6 more children, go crazy..

the best part of a off the gird system is the customizing ability you get from it. It becomes as Modular as an earthship.

The Basement Idea can be done passively. here's my Rough idea for a passive ice room.

start take 1 U module from the earthship books. Place insulation all around the inside of the U make it thick and a high r rating. Build a Pop can wall against the insulation. This adds mass to the room inside the insulation. Next step is a double pop can wall on the south side to block it off from the greenhouse with insulation between both pop can walls, to insulate it from the warm room. Finally add in some "drains" that lead outside. in the winter these are used to let cold air in. in the summer to drian away the water from all the ice that would be melting inside the room. In the start of the winter the pipes are opened fully to let cold air in and water is stored in the room that will hopefully freeze into nice solid blocks of ice... over the winter this is done repeated adding to the ice storage... in the summer warmer air will move in through the tubes and the ice will start to melt. thats where the tubes start working as a drain to let the water out... my Idea is to have the water frotm he ice water run off water the outdoor gardens.

I think this is a basic simple solution that won't require electrical or other energy inputs and I think this is as simple as I can make it.

I plan for a energy shortage, for less and less available energy to run our systems in our houses. so the ideas behind my planning is passive everything. Also the closer to simple a system is the less chance of a part breaking and causing the system not to work.

I agree with the use of ice to maintain the temp... had planned to stock up on the collapseable camping water jugs (the big 10 gallon kind) and to fill all available space in the freezer with them as a modular thermal mass, some made semi-portable by stacking them on wheeled bases. I would remove ice-jugs as necessary when I had food to store, and put them back when the food was eaten. My seeding shed outside would double as a surplus ice-jug storage shed in winter, with as many of them as possible moved inside the freezer by early spring. (I anticipate a stocking up of food in the fall, and a depletion over winter... it should work out).

If this can all be done passively I will be a happy camper. It's too bad I didn't think about it sooner or I would have built a small test freezer in our under-porch cold room. I would like to believe the ice as a thermal mass could maintain freezing temperatures throughout the whole summer, but I'm a bit skeptical.


And as for the SubZero appliances... they have smaller models than the monster Pro 48. Some are under or over counter modules, but the important point is that they all have a 'holiday mode' feature. If I had a couple (or a few) I could use one for my own day to day, and flip on the others when I anticipate company... or when I need more refridgerated storage. I know there is still the AC/DC power issue but to be blunt and honest, I don't like the Sunfrost fridges... I think they are ugly and innefficient (as a fridge, not electrically). I don't want to have to settle on them because they are the most electrically efficient, especially when there may be a reasonable compromise available.

I completely agree, they are ugly things... I haven't decided on a fridge yet. I figure I could work out a way to get the cold room working as both.. hence why Idea is a rough one.

Anyways as for if the passive cold room will work, history proves it will. Before the days of refridgerators, In the winter peopel would cut ice from lakes and store the ice in barns packed with straw. The ice was used all year long (including summer)in ice boxes (the prelude to the refridgerator) The passive method I have would work if the heat of the summer is kept out hence all the insulation around the room. it is along the lines of the passive ice box (forget the exact name of it) that is in th eearthship volume III book, only my idea is bigger.

hmm writing this post gave me another Idea. I wonder if I can get my hands on an anique Ice box that way I can use the ice from my room freezer in my Ice box to keep Fridge temperatures. and I get a rustic odl time look to go with it. Mix that in with a old time Wood stove and I have a very nice look happening in my head right now...

just wondering how much insulation in r value would you be needing for this concept. I am going to be selling my house in the city and buying some land soon and be building out there and want to be totally off the grid. well my idea is starting a self sufficient community. Start by buying some land build my place and go from theire i have about 6 ppl athat are willing to jump on the project