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I'm not meaning to be rude but it's just an interesting thing that a majority of people I believe on the site are women. I always saw Ace as more of a guy thing. Is it the mythology? Characters? Share all here.

A number of us on the site are adult women (much as we hate to admit it ), so the term 'girls' is a little patronizing, I think. I'm sorry, but the way you've phrased your question is having get out of a men's sandbox implications. Since the majority of us are women, being an Ace fan must be a female thing and we should be asking you why you like it, since the evidence is that the fans who post on the messageboard are mostly female. (I don't want to interrogate you that way, in case it would be seen as unwelcoming.)

Ace is a small fandom and so you can't make any statistical judgments from this messageboard's demographics, but the majority of fandom is female in general. Possibly this is because the history of fandom is female (see: beginning of slash), so women feel safe to enter and write fanfiction and have this female-friendly space. I'd be surprised if the distribution of eyeballs who watched Ace wasn't 50/50 or even slightly biased towards male watchers, but female watchers are more likely to enter fandom than male. I wasn't around in the very beginning of the first messageboard with the other Australian women who started it, Shadowcat and Sparx.

I do wish Ace had more female characters and I think there is a problem with misogyny even in fandom. But to me, even though Ace doesn't have enough female characters, I feel like it respects the female characters it does have. (And because of the fictional origin of the CGIs, naturally the good guys are white/evils are Other/hardly any female characters--the CGIs are supposed to have unfortunate implications because stereotyped videogames do that.) (I spent time in this particular other fandom because friends were there, and really, really hated the fact that the main female character there was continually reduced to a useless damsel in distress by the writers. To me, Ace treats the female characters decently, so as a feminist I don't feel insulted to watch it.) I like LI and Sparx a lot, and I like Ace and Lord Fear too as interesting characters. I imagine the other female fans here like the show for their own reasons.

I don't know how to quote well yet...


"A number of us on the site are adult women (much as we hate to admit it ), so the term 'girls' is a little patronizing, I think. I'm sorry, but the way you've phrased your question is having get out of a men's sandbox implications."

Sorry if it sounded patronizing, I was going to put women (and I did indeed write it later on in my sentence)- I just thought it might sound a bit odd (I thought girls would be more casual). I guess it's the same way that Russian user a few weeks back annoyed me for constantly calling us children. So sorry once again I didn't mean to offend whatsoever.

"we should be asking you why you like it"

I like the show because I like the overall story. Computer game characters coming seemingly to 'life' and continuing their conflict in the real world and the ramification it causes (hope that's the right word to use). I also like the range of themes it explores such as what is real like Scarab has written on. Then I also like the characters all so distinct and varied.


"Ace is a small fandom and so you can't make any statistical judgments from this messageboard's demographics, but the majority of fandom is female in general. Possibly this is because the history of fandom is female (see: beginning of slash), so women feel safe to enter and write fanfiction and have this female-friendly space. I'd be surprised if the distribution of eyeballs who watched Ace wasn't 50/50 or even slightly biased towards male watchers, but female watchers are more likely to enter fandom than male. I wasn't around in the very beginning of the first messageboard with the other Australian women who started it, Shadowcat and Sparx.

I do wish Ace had more female characters and I think there is a problem with misogyny even in fandom. But to me, even though Ace doesn't have enough female characters, I feel like it respects the female characters it does have. (And because of the fictional origin of the CGIs, naturally the good guys are white/evils are Other/hardly any female characters--the CGIs are supposed to have unfortunate implications because stereotyped videogames do that.) (I spent time in this particular other fandom because friends were there, and really, really hated the fact that the main female character there was continually reduced to a useless damsel in distress by the writers. To me, Ace treats the female characters decently, so as a feminist I don't feel insulted to watch it.) I like LI and Sparx a lot, and I like Ace and Lord Fear too as interesting characters. I imagine the other female fans here like the show for their own reasons."

Woah... I'm new to fan-fiction and this level of fandom. I really don't know what to say. I personally like both strong written female and male characters. I love LOST but one thing I don't like is how Kate is so poorly written when it's to do with the love triangle but otherwise she is perfectly fine. I also really love what Nat has done with Lady Illusion as well.

To be honest, I NEVER thought females would be into this show. I really didn't.
I guess I'm sticking with stereotypes and generalisations about people. It was the whole feel of the show that seemed, well... guy-ish in a way and kiddy in general. There were obviously too many male characters in the show, but it's interesting how that didn't stop females from being fans.
It's really interesting to know that females too liked Ace Lightning. It's not that they can't, but it was a bit unexpected. I guess you were all teenagers when this show was around. I bet you guys had nothing much else to watch in those years of your life...huh? When this show was around, I was a kid. So, of course, I'd keep my generalisations about the show and it's audience from then. But if a new show like this was out, I'd have a different opinion on who it's viewers may be.

Here is another question i have to raise,
WHY ON EARTH did YOU adults, as teenagers in that time, watch this ridiculous kiddy show? I'm not saying the show is bad, but don't you seem a bit too old for it? Look at you now..you're Adults....!
Freaky. Weird. Odd. It creeps me out sometimes that I'm talking to adults on a kiddy show forum.

Anyway, why do you females like Ace Lightning? Short answer please.

Sorry if I sounded rude. I'm trying my best to respect everyone.

Oh the beginning of Slash, great fun.

I completely agree about why females are more likely to get into the fandom. When you go into fandoms, female fans tend to outweigh male fans (especially on places like livejournal, but that's a whole other conversation in of itself.) Although that isn't always the case, since some fans do tend to skew more male (Power Rangers fandom is an example of this.)

I'm a male viewer (seemingly the only one from the U.S.) so I don't have any female Ace Lightning fan friends that I ever interacted with on a personal level, although to be fair, I never had any male fans to interact with either.

And also, sometimes while shows are aimed at a specific age group, they end up hitting a completely different demographic all together. I know when YuYu Hakusho was first being shown in America, it was shown in a late night time slot, which meant it was being geared towards an older audience. However, it became very popular with younger viewers as time went on (even though they weren't the target audience) and consequently it was moved to an earlier time slot.

Their are more than likely more examples of this but you get my meaning (hopefully)

And as to the question why do females like Ace Lightning, the real question should be why does anyone like Ace Lightning? Why people like shows don't necessarily have anything to do with gender. Why one female fan might like the show may be completely different from the other, much like male fans. I don't think my reasons would necessarily be the same as yours.

And as a feminist my self I agree with you Sarah in your point on that.

…Well, nobody’s asking you to stick around and keep talking to us. At the risk of being rude... may I note that your etiquette needs a little work. Sometimes it's better to ASK whether something is insulting BEFORE you post rather than apologise in retrospect. If you're really trying to "respect" everyone then maybe you should think about that first.

The fact is, Veritas, that we were TEENAGERS when the show started. Perhaps a little “old” for it (and for the record, Ace isn’t THAT much of a “kiddy show”. If I had to guess the target audience it would be twelve to fourteen year old boys. Which is young in comparison to us old timers, but it's NOT a kiddy show), but still well within the age at which we could be amused by such fictions. There is this horrible HORRIBLE stereotype out there that everyone who is over the age of fifteen who watches cartoons is either an immature brat, or some kind of a horrible pedophile. Rest assured that you need not be “creeped out” because NONE OF US on here fit into either of those categories; none of us are bad people, or nasty people (well, I do tease poor Rotgut now and then, but he knows it’s all in jest ) 99.99999999 percent of us are perfectly harmless.

I have a BA in animation and design. I know a great many people who are MUCH older than me who watch cartoons on a regular basis. I myself also watch them regularly. We have two reasons for doing this – one is that we’re ANIMATORS, so for us, it’s research. It helps us to understand the medium we’re creating for in order to turn out shows that appeal to our audiences. If I had NOT spent a lot of time watching cartoons I would not know how to MAKE them. The same is true for people who write stories and scripts for children, and those who work as entertainers.

The other reason is simply because we LIKE it. It's not odd. It's not weird. And it's CERTAINLY not "creepy". It’s actually very common for older people to enjoy shows that are "targeted at" (and please note that saying something is "targeted" at an age group is not the same as saying that it is "made" only for that age group) for younger people. They’re just afraid to admit it because of the public assumptions made about them in response. Many, many tv shows are written WITH the child audiences’ parents in mind as well -Note how many in-jokes and “adult” comedy often sneaks through the sensors in animated features. It’s because the creators know that the adults will be watching with their kids, and want everyone to be entertained.

When you are twenty one will you look back on Ace Lightning and say that it’s now total crap because you’re “too old for such kiddy shows”? Will you dismiss your childhood so easily? Sure we’re older than the target fans, but so what? We can’t help what we enjoy. Should we moderate ourselves? Ban ourselves from CBBC? Only ever watch TV after 9 pm?

C S Lewis (writer of the Narnia series) once made an interesting point about “childishness”. He said that as a child, he would hide his fairytale books so his brothers did not tease him for reading them, but when he was an adult, he would read them openly, in full view. “When you grow up”, he said “you put away the need for childish things, including the fear of being SEEN as childish”.

What you have here is a bunch of open minded girls who can enjoy younger-targeted shows, as WELL as those aimed at their age group (Me, I’m a CSI fan, and I'm rather ford of Torchwood, too.) I like Ace because I like the characters, and am intrigued by its portrayal of videogame characters in the real world. I find it’s hero endearing, and it’s other characters amusing. And also… well, maybe a part of Mark reminds me of myself as a kid, because I remember when I wasn’t very popular due to “weird behavior” either (and unlike Mark I didn't have the excuse of trying to keep a VG superhero hidden from the world). Those things haven’t changed just because I “grew up”.

And most of all, I love the series because through it, I met some smart, creative, and fun people who have since become very important to me. Most of them are girls. Most of them are far too old to be in the BBC’s target audience I don't particularly care why or how. Frankly, it's not important.

Sarahand Rider Jetfire otherwise have said it all. (And yay slash )

YAY Slash indeed (I don't really read much of it but I still get a kick out of the crazy things that have come out of it.)

And why do us "adults" watch children shows? Well for one, just because a show is aimed at children it does not mean in anyway it's only for kids. The best example of this is Doctor Who. DW is made so young kids can watch (not to young, but around eight years old) but a large section is made up of much older viewers who remember the older show as kids and enjoy the new show now. Heck, I only discovered Doctor Who a few years ago and I adore it. It's made so kids can watch it, but it's also made so EVERYONE can enjoy it.

One of my favorite shows is Power Rangers. Now I admit it's certainly not a perfect show (honestly, what show is?) but it's what really inspired me to get into the film track I'm on in my life. It's what inspired me to make "21 Jump Street Rangers" the first full length production I've ever made.

And also just because something is made for older people doesn't necessarily make it better than "kids" TV. I will hold up that Gargoyles and Beast Wars are some of the greatest shows ever made and surpass many shows made for adults. They have much better plots and the characters are certainly more defined.

And as for liking Ace Lightning specifically, I remember really emphasizing with Random Virus as a kid, with his uncertainty about who he was (at least that was how I looked at it at the time) and how he was always in conflict with himself.

On the subject of this, it's strange that you assume that as women, we need female characters to relate and attach to before we can get into a series. It's like saying we need someone's hand to hold to lead us into this. I'm sure we can (and did) manage to pluck up the courage to watch a show that contained some males, violence and complicated underlying themes.
Watch out for making those generalisations and stereotypes Veritas, you'll find they'll do you no good in the real world.

Back on topic, and adding further to the femininity points (how many of us are there?), Ace Lightning is rather fair on it's female characters - not as fair as it could be, but still realistically fair. Sparx is a secondary character to Ace, intended to be his original sidekick - but she doesn't just take this lying down. She's not submissive, she's independent, and she's strong. She certainly does not take Ace's word as the be-all, end-all. However, she's also not overbearing, or too inconsiderate. It's a decent portrayal of a strong woman with her own life plans, without making her unreasonable or hysterical, or with an unfounded grudge against the opposite gender - something which is so often used to describe a woman with her own mind.
Lady Illusion plays the role which is normally considered 'domesticated wife'. She should be submissive, devoted and quiet. She'll go to the very end with her 'husband'. Except she doesn't, and she doesn't because she's strong - whatever her and Fear's 'marriage' is, it's an abusive and unequal one. Her escaping from it is her personal growth as she understands there is something beyond the life she lives at the time. Even better, she doesn't just rush off, hysterically crying into the arms of the nearest male, she leaves the Carnival of her own accord, and her relationship with Ace is begun by him attempting to woo her, rather than the other way round. She's typically the 'weak-willed' type, but because she becomes strong personally and rejects that, she becomes a well-rounded female character.
Illusion also played the role of the typical sexy character that reeled in the men, something that put me off her at first. It's not until you realise she doesn't play up on this herself - Lady Illusion is attractive, but she never really acknowledges it herself, and I can only think of one instance where she used it to her advantage (trying to get Fear to leave Ace alone). Her attractiveness is not a focus, never really acknowledged and never forced at us.

In terms of the male characters, they're actually very fair too.
Ace is typical 'alpha-male' and combined with his goody-goody attitude, he's the type of character I would expect to think that women should stay at home wearing aprons, tending his kids and cooking his meals. Ace isn't like this at all, he doesn't speak in front of, or treat the female characters any different than he would the other characters. There isn't a single hint of preconception about gender roles in his dialogue. As far as he's concerned everyone is on exactly the same level. The same goes for Lord Fear - he may treat people as being in a certain order, but gender has nothing to do with it.

More on topic; further to Scarab's point, Ace Lightning does interest me to a large extent because of the whole artistic side of it. The character designs, the animation, the colour schemes, all delightful stuff. On the other hand, I really do just plain LIKE it, it's got video game characters coming to life! That's awesome! There's no reason why, as an adult, I can no longer find that cool.

A very good point. The need for equality in the world in terms of gender aside, I find that I don’t need a female lead to endear me, I just need someone I can relate to. The fact that fandom is majorly female is proof of that– though OI appreciate the ones we have. Whenever I’m writing, I don’t so much concentrate on creating “male characters” or “female characters” – just GOOD characters. Gender is far less important in the long run.

in Ace, I think that there were many initially stereotypical character... but... well, stereotypes are an interesting aspect of Ace Lightning in general I think, because they ARE ever prevalent in the show itself. Ace Lightning as a series is founded upon a number of particular character stereotypes, but the reason it gets away with it is because it constantly [i[subverts[/i] these stereotypes.

Ace, for example: your typical, super strong, superfast, blond , blue eyed and obviously American superhero... If he were created in the fifties, you know JUST the type of lifestyle he’d be portraying. And yet he’s more than that. Ace shows what would REALLY happen if you stuck a guy with super strength into a normal, human world. Ace constantly smashes things in the real world, doesn’t understand the concept of friendship, (and initially he can’t even appreciate the world beyond a very basic evils = bad philosophy). And as Nat says, he also DOESN’T buy into the whole “people/women should know their place” philosophy. In fact, Ace seems relatively naive to there being ANY essential differences between males and females in terms of personality. (Unfortunately he also seems relatively naive as to the concept of AGE: which may have contributed to his willingness t just up and elect a thirteen year old kid into a battle between worlds. As I’ve said before Mark was, effectively, a child soldier.)

Then there’s Sparx: the upstart: impatient, proud, and reckless... and unlike most heroic sidekicks, she gets killed for it once, and almost killed for it on another occasion.

Random? The wild card, former ally of the heroes. Another common stereotype. Except that Random really has no choice in the matter, and his situation is far more complicated than that simple tagline.

Effectively, Ace Lightning is a superhero parody and affectionate pastiche... and this probably warrants its own topic.

You sure? I could’ve sworn it was her who made the first move. Ace didn’t even know how to flirt XD which is another way in which LI stands out from the usual.

Nat hits the ball on the head again this is yet another reason for why I’m so fond of Ace. I see no reaosn why I should limit my tastes to adult stuff only (particuarly not when you must consider that ADULTS have to make these series).

…You know, it might be interesting to create a pole just to SEE how many male and female fans there are in the forum… I;m curious now.

You're right, I am admittedly twisting it a little bit there. What I meant was that he said that first 'opposites attract line' which set it off - but you're right, he doesn't really make any moves (though on that point, except for the dancing in ep6, neither of them are very active in furthering their relationship, though LI's ever so slightly more enthusiastic about it ).

Umm, actually, good-quality TV programs haven't just come into being in the last few years. It's not as though Ace was a last resort in desperate TV viewing times.

I was about 14 when I started watching Ace (it started in 2002 in Aus.) I have to admit I didn't realise that qualifies me as decrepit. I watched it because I enjoyed it. The subject matter appealed to me, I loved the animation, Sparx was awesome, and most of the jokes were funny.

As I got more into the series and discovered fandom etc. I found more to appreciate with regards to subtext, characters and so on. I also got older. Can any of us help that? Mark was 13 in the first series; does that make him freaky, weird, odd and creepy too?

What makes Ace so ridiculously kiddy anyway? People 'die' violent deaths, there are abusive relationships, people dealing with severe emotional instability, etc. etc.

No one is forcing you to talk to a bunch of 'weirdos' on a forum for a 'ridiculous' show. I appreciate that you don't mean to be rude, but you might consider choosing your words a little more carefully.

Indeed. I would be hard pressed to find anyone who did not find, for example, the scene in Unidentified Flying Superhero[ (when a character was "killed" so brutally and unexpectedly that I think the audiences was all a bit alarmed to care that she'd be back in a few days time. The fact that she got better does not change the fact that we watched her getting shot in the heart with her own damn sword. Nor the fact that there were, as I have mentioned twice now, I think, kid soldiers running around (well, thats what Mark and Chuck were, however you look at it).

Television (at least in the western world) has had many "ideas" ascribed to it over the years and not all of them are fair or accurate. One of these is the idea that somehow, cartoons are either for kids only, or are designed with a specifically adult audience in mind (and with a lot of crude humour and sex jokes). This has split aniamtion in the est into two stereotyped catagoeires - "adult" (which is a very inaccurate label but we'll go with it) animation, and "kiddy" animation. But one just has to look at the stuff coming out of Russia, and/or japan to see that animation can encompass a much wider audience than just kids or adults.

Of course there's a lot of really great stuff out there, including a lot of "family" shows such as Dr. Who and many Disney films. Just because something doesn't have a higher than 12+ rating doesn't make it instantly "kids only".

The ratings system (i.e. the idea of PG films, R rated films, 18 rated films and so on) is done to PROTECT younger audiences from concepts and ideas they may not be able to handle at a young age. But the fact that something is rated "U" (unviersal) or even "U-c") does not instantly make it deliberately inaccessible to adults, also.

With all that's going with me lately I'd like to apologize for making this topic. I didn't mean for it to be so rude or controversial (sorry, Sarah).


I'm probably feminist myself. I hate men who cause harm to women and how women are treated so poorly at times. I was mainly raised by my Mum and Sister.

As for cartoons being wierd for older people. I love animation it's like a field of film in it's own. You can have all the genres- Sci-Fi, Drama, Comedy, Horror etc. and I just love the richness of animation. It can also create fantastic worlds that would be too hard to be believable in live-action. I also love the usual strong focus on characters and stories in animation. I loved Beast Wars as a kid because of the character studies. I can still remember Dinobot's death airing here December 24th 1998. So sad but yet so poignant. And I'm sure if I watched Beast Wars again I would pick up things for the adult audience (I noticed this re-watching both Toy Stories for the first time since I was little last weekend). Which is yet another thing I love about animation. Their are things that the children can pick up and appreciate but then there are things adults can also enjoy with it.

I definitley think Ace is not strictly for kids. Especially the darker tone of Series 2. Re-watching Fear's physical abuse to Lady Illusion is quite shocking.

Veritas I always felt that the way you wrote seemed if you were bullied because you liked these shows. You even mentioned it took you out of your sad times. And FYI there were plenty of other shows I was into at the time. I got fully into Dragonball at the time and many other animes.

I apologize again if any of this is offensive or whatnot. I'm really not in the best mindframe at the moment so my writing is probably sloppy...

It's okay, Staffhead. I hope the discussion here strikes that fine line between letting people feel they cannot express an opinion, and letting things become too vitriolic. I've appreciated Scarab's and Nat's posts on character analysis in Ace Lightning in particular in this topic.

I love animation too. I'm probably warped because I was never allowed to watch any TV as a kid thanks to strict parents, and then I was only allowed to watch kids' TV thanks to slightly less strict parenting, and now animation is the only style of TV I really appreciate (although I love anime and the more adult subtext in Ace as animation that's used to tell more complex stories that adults can enjoy too). I'm also incredibly bad at facial recognition, so if I watch a live action movie and there are two brown-haired Caucasian men in lead roles I am guaranteed not to be able to tell the difference between them for at least the first quarter of an hour. (Like, I have watched this trailer quite a few times because of Pretty Gay Boys, and I know it is about two pretty gay boys, but I just cannot tell one from the other unless they are in a scene together.) Animated characters it's easier to tell the difference between the blue-haired one and the pink-haired one; animation's also prettier and only limited by imagination . (Nothing wrong with live action, though--I did get to really like the live action Ace characters too.)

Don't feel bad Staff. You brought up a legitimate question (especially for one who isn't as much into fandoms as others are here.) It just sort of spun out of control.

Oh and Sarah, I have heard good things about that movie (and don't pretty gay boys always make things better )

I guess I was going to hard about the thought that this show was for kids.
The first season definitely seemed kiddy, but the second season was the best.
The second season seemed more for all ages. I was bullied? Well, if I would ask friends about this show, they remember it in a negative way. And, somewhat, their opinions are correct and false in various ways.

Yeah. I hate men or boys who hate women. But then again, I hate it when women hate men. I dislike hating of differences: race, gender, faith, etc.

I was a hardcore fan of Dragonballz when I was 7/8 yrs old. It was a mad show! Loved it so much. Too bad my parents got rid of cable tv. I have lost interest in anime. I'm very interested in recent shows like Lost, Flashforward, Big Bang theory, etc.

Sorry if I have acted rude. I do admit I did. And I have made myself look like a fool for saying the show was kiddy and that older people shouldn't watch it.

So why did many females like Ace Lightning? Because Mark is so cute
and you can learn heaps about the daily lives of boys, and the problems they face and how they feel. I guess that's some of the major reasons why I'd watch a show aimed at the opposite sex.

Oh goodness me Veritas, you've done it again!
No, we do not (as women) need to watch a show because the main character is the opposite gender, attractive, and we need to desperately find out out about them. We aren't little gerbils in cages that you dangle specific foods in front of so that we run on the wheel, we're human beings.

I'll go back to saying Ace is rather realistic in it's female casting, and treats them mostly equally.
But most of all it has VIDEO GAME CHARACTERS COMING TO LIFE. Can't women find that cool as well? Instead of it having to be about some desperate need to work out how to further our own personal relationships. In fact, it's hardly the best show to take tips from!

So you guys use the show as a useful resource to learn from?

I just like it as a show in general.

This topic is becoming a big debate. I really shouldn't continue.

I think Nat meant that she finds characters out of videogames coming to life cool , not that she wanted to learn about boys through watching Mark's social life. Veritas, everyone likes what they like for their own reasons. We don't like being told that we have to like Ace for these reasons because we have a couple of X chromosomes, or that we have to give up liking what we like because we had our 18th birthdays, any more that you'd like to be told that being male means you have to behave like a male stereotype.

I hope you continue posting on the board in general, Veritas. Everyone posts things that cause debates sometimes, so just try to be tactful and it'll all be good.

Ooh, what excitement!!!

Having fun, Rotgut?

Ah, as Sarah said, we don’t mind. Personally I’d rather we discussed the issues than hid from them altogether, or remained ignorant to one another’s stereotypes… Certainly nobody was TRYING to insult anyone, and better here than in some heated high school debate where people can’t move beyond the idea of “bloody men” and “damned females”. (Uh, no offence to anyone who has perfectly reasonable, balanced high school debates.)

Me too. Animation offers so many more blurred lines (though coming from an animation background I know there’s a lot of trouble with it… for example,. We have no idea where it should be placed in the education stratum – with film making, or with art? It kind of defies boundaries, which is another reason why it shouldn’t be lumped as being “for kids”. It has far too much potential to be pigeonholed.

Bullying sucks and yeah, most series' start out “lighter” and get darker as they go on, and the writers feel more confident. Sometimes I wonder if Ace had gone just a little further, might it have gotten more of an audience? I mean, just look at all the crazy theories we come out with on this board! There was so much potential, but they missed it out so they could play it safe.

I won’t pretend to understand just why some things are ”popular” and other things aren’t, but it seems very unfair for people to judge things so harshly and sharply. To judge Ace Lightning (or any show) purely on its negatives is to dismiss it’s positives.

And you like Ace, right? Why should you be judged or dismissed for that? So it’s not Shakespeare. So what? In fact, Veritas, odds are just a few people at your school disliked the show – and because they were “popular” their opinion was considered valid. Now many “popular” shows are not necessarily any better than the “unpopular” shows, and unfortunately so much of television depends on ratings these days… perfectly good shows (like firefly, which lasted only one series and now has a huge cult following) are often cut from schedules.

I’m not saying Ace is perfect. Far from it. But I’ve kinda been trained to pick up on the faults and errors in these kind of things – Ace Lightning is FULL of things which the professional, technical, I-should-know-better side of my brain knows should turn me away from it… (and the game… yegods, gameplay aside, the story and writing and VA’s are just… so terrible you have to laugh at it XD Mark has NO TASTE WHATSOEVER)... And yet I still love the show. Because a part of it still speaks to me and to what I think (insert random melodramatic twaddle here).

He's not that cute plus you don't know for sure that every girl on this site is straight

I mean, how many of the problems you saw in Ace can actually apply to your life and identity as a "boy"? It’s just not as SIMPLE as “these types of things are for girls” and “these types of things are fort boys”, V. The world doesn’t really fit into these categories no matter how people try to shove them. The types of boundaries and stereotypes we see in fiction (and yes, this includes Ace) are just basic, and very uncomplicated ideas that do not reflect upon reality.

In fact I’m rather sick of tv recently which is supposedly aimed at “girls” (Winx Club, Bratz, Barbie, etc) and yet is filled with fashion tips, make up tips, pink, style advice, selected styling head mannequin dolls… and did I mention pink? I mean I'm a girl, and I don’t like ANY of those things… but I’m not an outright tomboy who loves football, wrestling and, shonen manga ,either. I’m sure YOU’RE not that type of boy. We defy the categories.

Look at Lady Illusion – try and fit her into a specific girly girl or tomboy category. She’s a very good example of a strong woman who is just that – a strong woman. Not a girly girl who’s been toughened by abuse and is now cold as ice, not a rough and ready beat-em-up tomboy. Just… a girl. Woman, to be precise.

Maybe it’s time to forget about a lot of gender differences. They’re really not that important in the long run, trust me.

I'm sorry,Veritas, It just seemed like you were bullied the way you posted last year.

Oh and Dragonball Z is on 6:30am on Saturdays on Channel 10 I discovered today. It's at a very early part of the Saiyan saga so it's perfect to get into now.

I still don't understand what you mean by 'bullied'...

Yay. Dragonballz! I loved the show heaps. Maybe I'll get back into it.
I wouldn't count on it. I wake up at 7am on Saturdays, and it kills my eyes and brain just waking up so early on weekends, but I have to. My parents make me go to language school to learn my mother tongue.

I don't know. I regret saying everything I did on this board

I wish I were learning another language Breing bilingual seems like such an advantage in the world...

Don't regret saying what you did. There's not much sense in that because you can't just erase it anyway, and if you HADN'T said all this, we wouldn't have gotten a big, interesting debate about it Debates aren't a bad thing. Disagreements are the spice of fandom (well actually, in our case, Lady Illusion is she spice of fandom, but... you know )

There hasn't been a big discussion like this for eons.

"I still don't understand what you mean by 'bullied'..."

I don't either anymore... I shouldn't have brought it up.. Sorry once again.

I guess you could call me a big debater. I love big discussions and debates. I always argue to get my point across. But this year, I feel so ... empathetic for people. I feel like all this argumentative attitude inside me is so rude and silly and hurtful. I feel for people now days. I can sense their sensitivity of my comments. I can see the hatred growing inside them for my stupidity.

I haven't got a problem with my mother-tongue. But it's just waking up so early to go to this silly wreck (some old high school) on a Saturday really annoys me. It feels tiring and awkward. I'd be so happy if they offered that language in high school rather than out of school lessons. I doubt it will ever happen, bringing my language to L.O.T.E classes. It's an extremely complicated language, but it's very precise and advantageous.

Okay, Back on Topic. When I was young, watching Ace Lightning... obviously I'd think it's a guy-ish show or teenager show because it involves the main character being a boy and a lot of the characters being teenagers. What would a child know at that age? And I honestly thought it wasn't really popular amongst girls... but I was wrong. I wasn't into socialising with the opposite sex in my young years, so obviously, I'd just make assumptions about things. Now I am happy socialising with girls or boys. I was more into cartoons and marvel superheroes back then. I didn't like such shows involving real footage and real people. Now I love them.

I think I get what you mean by 'bullied'. Your saying I was pressured or was brought into thinking the way I did about this show, especially by factors such as friends, family, age, etc.

"I think I get what you mean by 'bullied'. Your saying I was pressured or was brought into thinking the way I did about this show, especially by factors such as friends, family, age, etc."

Yeah, that's what I meant.

I was thirteen/fourteen when I started watching yes and girl- but I like shows based on their character development and storyline.

I loved the show because of what it stood for, and what the characters did. It was not always easy for them to fight but they did because it was the right thing to do- actually my best friend would mock the fact I came to do 'justice rants'

I loved the morality of good versus evil because it's the world we live in. And no I was never attracted to the male characters.

You all rock by the way- this is such a civilized discussion... I've seen other fanbases eviserate each other over it.

What I find so interesting is that the show can be quite suitable for most kids-teens. In fact, I am experiencing some of the things Mark had to experience (eg. growing up, fighting evil or injustice, puberty, dating girls...)
Pretty cool.